Fighter Encounter 1 - Rain of Blows

[vhailor]

The Fighter Encounter Rain of Blows says:
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC, two attacks
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.

Secondary Target: The same or a different target
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.

In the secondary attack, does he have two attacks or only one,
giving a total of 3 x (1[W] + Strength modifier damage.)?

Many count the total damage with 4x

 

[vhailor]

I saw a combo earlier that used Warlord's Powers to boost a Fighter and use Rain of Blows. Too much damage to let it pass.

I'd appreciate an answer.

 

[Runestar]

My take is 4, since each of the 2 beginning attacks has a chance of triggering a 2nd attack.

But isn't rain of blows a fighter3 encounter power?

 

[eamon]

You are only granted a secondary attack if the first attack hits and if you meet hefty requirements. The straightforward reading allows you to make two attacks (against the same creature) regardless of the prerequisites. For each primary attack that hits, if you have Dex 15 (which isn't nothing, esp for a fighter who would really like high strength, con and wisdom too...), and are wielding a light blade (unattractive), flail or spear (both not particularly attractive), you'd get an extra attack.

This is pretty strong. On the other hand, Sweeping blow is a close burst, and it has trivially attractive prerequisites, and grants 1/2 of your primary ability score as a (otherwise hard to get) attack bonus.

On the whole (also considering that a fighter likes multi-marking, which rain of blows makes difficult), I can't say I feel rain of blows is really all that problematic. Sure, it's a lot of concentrated damage - but you'll be missing out on a power that hits more reliable and supports you core competency (marking) better.

 

[MrMyth]

This power really bugs me. It feels like it was meant to be one attack, with a second attack if you had the right weapon, but it went through too many variations and ended up giving out 3 or 4 attacks at low levels - clearly more than seems reasonable.

Anyway, the most balanced way to read it, without outright changing it, is to let the secondary attack trigger only once.

In other words:
1) Take 2 attacks.
2) If either one hits, take your secondary attack. If both hit, you still take only one secondary attack.

It is still among the most potent powers out there, but I think this keeps it at least somewhat in line with intended power.

 

[Keenath]

Yeah, okay. First it's 3rd level, not 1st.

Second:
To me, it reads four attacks maximum -- you make two primary attacks, and each hit triggers a secondary if you meet the steep prereqs. See how the "Weapon" line and all the secondary stuff is indented? That's to show that it's part of the HIT for the primary attack.

Compare to "Devastation's Wake", which has a secondary attack that is not linked to a hit with the primary attack, which does not have those lines indented.

 

[eamon]

(I'm proposing an analysis just to get a feel. it's not complete by all means, and in error since it disregards critical hits, but it's enough to get a feel for the matter):

Let's say your flail has a 10/20 chance of hitting opponents.
with 18 strength it deals 1d10+4 damage, or D=9.5 per hit.

Then, if you meet the prerequisites, you'll deal 0.5*D + 0.5 *D + 0.5*0.5*D + 0.5*0.5*D = 1.5*D damage on average.

To compare, your axe-wielding alter ego will hit 12/20 times. He'll deal 0.6*D*M damage, where M is the number of monsters. If he's surrounded by two monster's, he'll deal slightly less damage, when surrounded by three, slightly more. On the other hand, he'll probably have better other capabilities since he didn't need to invest as heavily in Dex. He'll also be multi-marking all enemies, whereas the rain of blows user has only a 75% chance of marking two enemies, and only a 25% chance of marking 3, and he can never mark more than three enemies.

As levels rise, the attack bonus provided by sweeping blow rises further. If an enemy is harder to hit, sweeping blow rises further. On the other hand, if you're only attacking 1 or 2 enemies, or enemies have a very low AC, rain of blows becomes more attractive. Rain of blows is better vs. solo's (because of AC issues, not always by as much as you might hope), but worse vs. minions (which die on the first hit, and so might deny you your second primary attack).

All in all, sounds balanced to me!

 

[cheshire_grin]

^^^^
That's a pretty good analysis, I think.

But isn't rain of blows a fighter3 encounter power?

Yep, Fighter Encounter 3.

The way I read it is:
You attack a primary target twice. If you meet the other criteria (wielding light blade, spear, or flail and have Dex 15+) and hit, each attack that hits grants you a secondary attack against either the same or a different target.

Thus if you hit with both primary attacks, you make two secondary attacks, each at any target in range. So yes, up to 4 * (1[W] + STR) damage.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Rain of Blows
Encounter Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC, two attacks
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Weapon: If you're wielding a light blade, spear, or flail and Dexterity 15 or higher, make a second attack.
Secondary Target: The same or different target
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.

I agree that's not clear - Hypersmurf, any previous clarification on this one?

Looks like you get two attacks on the primary target, each doing 1[w] damage, and if you meet the Weapon requirement you get what is actually a third attack, also doing 1[w] damage.

vhailor - Would you mind waiting more than an hour for someone to answer your question next time?

 

[Larrin]

The way the Compendium writes it, the secondary attack is NOT dependent on previous hits (no indentation/mention of secondary attack in hit line). So three attacks max, if you have the right weapons,etc. IF in the phb there is an indentation before the secondary attacks, then it would imply one secondary attack per hit. If the PHB matches the compendium, its just three attacks max.