Fighter Encounter 1 - Rain of Blows

[Gloombunny]

Why would a ranger want Rain of Blows? None of the weapons it works with are very good for a ranger.

And Rain of Blows synergizes very well with Pit Fighter. Especially if you spend your action point on hitting the enemy with Chain of Sorrows first.

 

[vhailor]

Sorry about the mistake with the level, but I didn't have the PHB with me.
I agree that the maximun attacks should be 3. When I looked at the the power again, I noticed that the text that mentions the criteria for the secondary attack is not in the same coloured space with the "Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage". For me it means that it doesn't matter if it hits or not.

Just imagine what is possible with a Taclord(with 16 Int) in the party
Attack: +1(level)+1(Magic Weap)+1(Fighter Talent)+4(from STR)+2(from prof)= +9
Because it is encounter power you'd try to gain a boost to the attack
You could get: +2(flanking) or +4(Buffing from Taclord with Warlord’s Favor) or +3+1(Action Surge+Tactical Presence)
If you could get all the effects: Total to Hit = +19. You hit everything even with a 2 roll.
As for the damage: 1d8(spear/trident) +4(STR) +1(Magic Weapon). You could also get +1(Weapon Focus) or +3(Tactical Assault). Total damage 3 x (4.5 + 9)=40.5
Even if you don't want to spend feats in spears, you could carry it in your backpack just for this attack. You could still use Rain of Blows with any other weapon for 2[W]+ Str. The only drawback I see, is the 15 to Dex.

 

[Grimstaff]

I totally agree with the reading of maximum 3 attacks.

This.

Most fighters will get 2 attacks from this Encounter power.

A few fighters (with the prereqs) will get a third attack, and can apply it to a 2nd target if they wish.

 

[eamon]

Even if you don't want to spend feats in spears, you could carry it in your backpack just for this attack. You could still use Rain of Blows with any other weapon for 2[W]+ Str. The only drawback I see, is the 15 to Dex.

If you have weapon focus in some non spear weapon, and have a non-spear magical weapon, then carrying around a spear just for this one attack isn't going to be overpowering. As my previous calculations demonstrated, rain of blows even with up to 4 attacks breaks even with sweeping blow somewhere between 2 and 3 opponents, which is a reasonable situation to encounter in combat. It doesn't have as much synergy with the fighters marking ability, and it has more onerus prerequisites.

Certainly, in many cases it will be stronger, especially if you adapt your tactics to optimize its use - but in many cases sweeping blow will be stronger if you choose to optimize it. It's definitely not game-breaking, and it's not even unbalancing by the measure that all fighters should choose it.

It is one of the better powers, but your game won't collapse. That said, it's still a reasonable pick even if you allow no more than 3 attacks - but I wouldn't punish a player for picking it without good reason, which I just don't see.

 

[Runestar]

The good thing about rain of blows is that it lets you concentrate all your attacks on the 1 same foe, allowing you to stack all your damage and finish him off that much faster. And we all know that being dead is the best status effect in the game, since a dead foe can't attack or interfere in combat in any way, much less harry/damage your party or cause them to expend further resources.

While sweeping blow might deal the same total amount of damage from a mathematical perspective, unless all the foes in question happen to be minions (in which case, cleave can be just as good, since the DM usually isn't dumb enough to have them all cluster together), the fact that the damage is being spread out more or less evenly amongst them all seems to make it inferior to rain of blows, since foes attack every bit as effectively regardless of whether they are at full hp or at 1hp.

 

[keterys]

If you have weapon focus in some non spear weapon, and have a non-spear magical weapon, then carrying around a spear just for this one attack isn't going to be overpowering.

Agreed - Rain of Blows is something you do more if you want to actually use flails, spears, or light blades. Which are totally valid options.

As my previous calculations demonstrated, rain of blows even with up to 4 attacks breaks even with sweeping blow somewhere between 2 and 3 opponents

And your calculations are not at all relevant for the situation. Any more than it was helpful for people to claim Scorching Burst was broken because it can do 9d6+36 damage at 1st level.

It's definitely not game-breaking, and it's not even unbalancing by the measure that all fighters should choose it

True - just the ones using flails, spears, light blades, or the ones not taking Sweeping Blow (particularly those who aren't using a heavy blade, pick, flail, or axe). I just feel bad for the poor saps suckered into taking Crushing Blow.

It is, however, in the hands of those with the right weapons, the best fighter single target damage attack. At all levels. Daily or Encounter.

It is one of the better powers, but your game won't collapse.

Very few problems cause games to collapse - we've had characters who used polymorph tricks to become unkillable to most enemies in 3e and it didn't collapse the game. It certainly edged the game in that direction, though.

As an interesting litmus test, not only would a level 30 demigod flail fighter still have Rain of Blows, his level 3 power, but he's got a very good chance of using it every round as his choice of attack (if he's not spamming a stun power, mostly)

 

[Zsig]

It is one of the better powers, but your game won't collapse. That said, it's still a reasonable pick even if you allow no more than 3 attacks - but I wouldn't punish a player for picking it without good reason, which I just don't see.

To be fair, I regret showing that combo (the one I linked on my first post here) to my players.

I'm running Keep on the Shadowfell for a group of 3 players (eladrin fighter, warlord and ranger). Afraid it would be too hard for them, I ran Kobold Hall first. So, by the time they reached Irontooth they were already lvl 3.

Irontooth went down in a single turn, the ranger didn't even get a chance to hit him.

They're using the same combo over and over (sometimes just not with Villain's Menace since it's daily), and when an Elite or Solo shows up, combat rarely lasts more than 3 turns.

On the other group, a group of 4 PCs, I also ran Keep on the Shadowfell, and also ran Kobold Hall before. They had a harder time all around, almost faced TPKs on several places, where the 3 eladrin team didn't.
What's worse, both groups communicate with themselves occasionally, and now, the fighter from the 4 PCs group is slowly changing his character to use spears (he already changed Sweeping Blow for Rain of Blows, next level will retrain the Weapon Focus (heavy blade) for spear...and then will be only missing the spear itself...)

I wouldn't say it's a collapse, but something is clearly going wrong.