Got the D&D 4e Starter Set...So whatcha wanna know?

[Scribble]

Yes, I do think the DM side of it was done superbly...but D&D isn't a game for DM's only. Yeah someone, as the DM, can grab these people and say "Hey let's play"... and they can be up and running in a few minutes, but I think most players are gonna say..."Yeah, that was cool but what makes it different from any other adventure/fantasy boardgame or more special than playng Diablo/WoW/etc. that I am going to want to make the time commitment and money commitment to play in your game every week?".

Shrug? I think personally if the game is fun to play, tht's good enough. Character generation is a big part of the game, but playing the game is more important in my opinion.

I started with the black boxed set with the big red Dragon on the cover... it had pregens. Most of the players who kept playing in my new camapign stayed with the pre-gens until the end.

As far as the players not having work...yes pre-gens do that, but does every level have to be a total pre-gen? I mean if a player is coming back to play up to 3rd level I don't thnk they'll be bothered by actually having one or two choices to make that will shape their character.

I'm also wondering if it also benefits the adventure designer. If he/she knows beforehand what the party will consist of, he can concentrate on making the best adventure for that group.

A way of ensuring the encounters, and play exerience works, and less snags happen.

Another problem is that the adventure presented is almost 100% combat, so really playing boardgame tactical combat with pre-gens doesn't sound too thrilling or enticing for players with the alternatives that are available to people nowadays ( Why not just play Dungeons & Dragons Heroes on Xbox?). Granted the DM will have the tools to perhaps craft a better adventure than the one included, using just the starter set...but I don't really see what will keep the players interested enough to give him that chance.

Hrmmm the big black boxed set adventure was almost entirely combat too. I'd say combat and D&D have always gone pretty hand in hand.

 

[garyh]

No this isn't the same, I don't want to rely on other people's judgement to decide whether I spend my money or not. I could go into Borders grab a cup of coffee and devote ten to fifteen minutes to looking through the magazine and decide... hey, this is content I think would be cool for my game. Now I have to decide based on poster A who may or may not be a fanboi/hater on whether I should spend my money on a product. And if I make the wrong choice there's no second chances.

A prime example of this is the FRCG...it has gotten rave reviews and been rated as total garbage by numerous posters...so how do you decide in that situation? Wanna know what I did, went into Borders, grabbed a cup of coffee, and....well you know the rest.

You realize the price of that cup of coffee at Borders would pay for your monthly DDI sub?

It just seems to me like you have problems with the subscription model, period. That's not something WotC invented, though.

 

[Scribble]

No this isn't the same, I don't want to rely on other people's judgement to decide whether I spend my money or not. I could go into Borders grab a cup of coffee and devote ten to fifteen minutes to looking through the magazine and decide... hey, this is content I think would be cool for my game. Now I have to decide based on poster A who may or may not be a fanboi/hater on whether I should spend my money on a product. And if I make the wrong choice there's no second chances.

A prime example of this is the FRCG...it has gotten rave reviews and been rated as total garbage by numerous posters...so how do you decide in that situation? Wanna know what I did, went into Borders, grabbed a cup of coffee, and....well you know the rest.

It's like going to see a movie.

In my case, I try to find a reviewer of said movie who's tastes agree with mine at least somewhat consistantly.

If their opinion of the film is bad, I'm less inclined to go see it.

I did the same with a lot of the pdf products I've bought in the past, as well as other things I've purchased online.

 

[Imaro]

You realize the price of that cup of coffee at Borders would pay for your monthly DDI sub?

It just seems to me like you have problems with the subscription model, period. That's not something WotC invented, though.

Plain and simple, you asked me what the difference was between Paizo's subscription model with the magazines and WotC. I have answered your question and you seem to have no reply but to continually think of ways to designate what I have a "problem" with. I don't have a problem with a subscription model. I do have a problem with an untested company dealing with something they haven't before and expecting me to trust them blindly...especially when up to this point they haven't impressed me with their products or offerings. if you feel differently well that's your oppinion.

Or maybe you just have a problem accepting that everyone doesn't think about things the same as you.

As for the coffee...I'm going to buy it anyway, not so sure about Dungeon & Dragon anymore.

 

[Imaro]

It's like going to see a movie.

In my case, I try to find a reviewer of said movie who's tastes agree with mine at least somewhat consistantly.

If their opinion of the film is bad, I'm less inclined to go see it.

I did the same with a lot of the pdf products I've bought in the past, as well as other things I've purchased online.

And I prefer the option to go into Borders, look through it and decide if it's worth my money, you know like I can with most BOOKS & MAGAZINES in Borders. I'm not arguing this for movies, so your example is irrelevant.

Honestly I can't believe people are arguing with me that using someone else's opinions on a purchase is better than the ability to examine in depth what you are about to purchase...I'm truly baffled by this line of reasoning. I'll just finish out by saying that Paizo gave the consumer both options. Nuff said.

 

[justanobody]

Shrug? I think personally if the game is fun to play, tht's good enough. Character generation is a big part of the game, but playing the game is more important in my opinion.

Your DM doesn't give out characters to people, and no one at your game wants to make them. The adventure you are running doesn't include them. How do you play?

Are you locked into one level, because like making characters you do not want to do the work to level them, so don't get anything when you go up in level?

You have to have something to play with, and creation is a little part that allows you to do so.

So for those people who buy the starter and think they are getting the real game concept of it and later find out they have to do all this character creation, the starter has misrepresented the game, if no one in the group wishes to create characters and thought they would always be provided.

It's like going to see a movie.

In my case, I try to find a reviewer

Final Fantasy Spirits Within. The most vocal reviewer of the film stated it was bad because it followed the video game series that he did not like in the first place.

The movie was bad, for me, because of a certain voice actor not fitting well and ruined the movie when his voice came up, but had little to do with the video game series other than the name/genre.

Finding a good reviewer or one that agrees is hardly possible for a magazine or other product in print. You need to be able to see it for yourself to finally judge it.

D&D the movie was so bad that they made a sequel. So it must have not been that bad, just poorly funded/executed.

"Believe nothing you hear, and only half of what you see."

 

[Sunderstone]

Some folks know Im not a fan of 4E. That said, based on the OPs posts about it I'd say it was a great starter set.

Sounds like its geared for people who have "zero" D&D experience. Not for the masses of players that have played previous editions. Fast and Simple, give 'em pregens and run a few encounters.
Then they can decide if D&D life might interest them. If it does, you can tell them that the full ruleset gives them character creation, higher levels, and many more options. Id probably use something like that as a tool to teach more people about the game. Too many options/rules too soon might be alot to take in for the average D&D "noob".

Sounds like a well thought out project for the most part, ymmv.


LATE EDIT*** Imagine if character creation was in for a second. Imagine spending some time to get a character made (might seem complex to a D&D noob) and having him die in one of the encounters. The D&D noob might be put off at the time it took to create a character to only have it die in a short while later. Pregens give them a taste for the system without the prep or attachment of a self-made character.

 

[Scribble]

And I prefer the option to go into Borders, look through it and decide if it's worth my money, you know like I can with most BOOKS & MAGAZINES in Borders. I'm not arguing this for movies, so your example is irrelevant.

My example was a similar situation. Purchasing a product that you can't see the entire thing before you pay for it. That's all. If that's not your style so be it I'm not putting a gun to your head and forcing you to do anything.

I really couldn't care any less if you buy a subscription to the DDI.

Honestly I can't believe people are arguing with me that using someone else's opinions on a purchase is better than the ability to examine in depth what you are about to purchase...I'm truly baffled by this line of reasoning. I'll just finish out by saying that Paizo gave the consumer both options. Nuff said.

Quit attributing an argument to me that I'm not making. When did I say using someone else's opinion was better then using your own?

I was commenting on how I approach similar buying situations.

All hail Paizo?

 

[darjr]

I smell straw.

 

[Scribble]

Your DM doesn't give out characters to people, and no one at your game wants to make them. The adventure you are running doesn't include them. How do you play?

Is this a tree falls in the woods riddle?

Are you locked into one level, because like making characters you do not want to do the work to level them, so don't get anything when you go up in level?

I was basing my thoughts on "new" players, having never seen D&D, not trying to attract players that are just lazy.

It allows the DM to show off the new game without having to convince players that have no idea what the game is like that doign the pre-work is going to be worth it.

You have to have something to play with, and creation is a little part that allows you to do so.

So for those people who buy the starter and think they are getting the real game concept of it and later find out they have to do all this character creation, the starter has misrepresented the game, if no one in the group wishes to create characters and thought they would always be provided.

Having never seen the intro set myself yet I can't say fore sure... But I'd be willing to bet they talk about being able to make your own characters in the "real" rules. I doubt they try to hide that fact...

Final Fantasy Spirits Within. The most vocal reviewer of the film stated it was bad because it followed the video game series that he did not like in the first place.

The movie was bad, for me, because of a certain voice actor not fitting well and ruined the movie when his voice came up, but had little to do with the video game series other than the name/genre.

Do you normally agree with this reviewer's thoughts?

Finding a good reviewer or one that agrees is hardly possible for a magazine or other product in print. You need to be able to see it for yourself to finally judge it.

That's funny... Seemed to work for me with all those pdfs I bought in the past based on reviwers on enworld that I generally agreed with... Guess I actually dislike those products and just didn't notice?

D&D the movie was so bad that they made a sequel. So it must have not been that bad, just poorly funded/executed.

uhhh? What?

"Believe nothing you hear, and only half of what you see."

The truth is out there?

Dooo dooo dooo do doooo dooooooooooo