Barbarian Playtest Experiences

[Ander00]

The ranger in our group was exchanged for a one-handed fighter, so I have in turn switched to a more aggressive build - warforged, to become a juggernaut later. Unfortunately, yesterday's session was canceled, so I did not get to try him out.


cheers

 

[Rechan]

Also remember that the rogue gets less damage out of encounter and daily powers than you might expect, since his [w] value is 1d4 or so.

?

Katar: d6 (high crit)
Shuriken in rogue's hands: d6
Short sword: d6
Kukri: d6 (brutal 1)
Sling: 1d6
Rapier: d8
Double sword: d8

Also (and correct me if I'm wrong), rogues sneak attack says crossbows, not hand crossbows. While they may be proficient with hand crossbows, getting proficient with a superior crossbow isn't out of bounds.

Not to mention that in Martial Power, the Ruthless Ruffian can sneak attack with Maces and (I think) hammers.

 

[Stalker0]

The Barbarian has an at-will attack that does W+Str+1d6 at low levels (W+Str+2d6 at paragon, 2W+Str+3d6 at epic). That still seems like a little lower than what you're getting, but on the other hand the barbarian can use it without having to go through hoops to get flanking or stuff like that

Also consider that the rogue will often have a better attack bonus. Assuming the same primary stats, Barb will likely use a maul to make use out of the extra W's. That gives a dagger rogue a +2 bonus to attack rolls, which is a solid advantage.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

?

Katar: d6 (high crit)
Shuriken in rogue's hands: d6
Short sword: d6
Kukri: d6 (brutal 1)
Rapier: d8
Double sword: d8

Dagger: 1d4

In Rogues hands it gets +1 to attack, which indirectly increases damage, and certainly increases how often your attacks have their special abilities. When your attack is either 1d6+2d8+4+4 (With a Dex 18, Cha 18 Rogue with backstabber using Sly Flourish) or 1d4+2d8+4+4 with a plus 1 to hit, the damage bonus is actually higher from the extra to hit than it is from a bigger weapon. That's why most rogues I've seen use daggers. It just means that 2w or 3w doesn't matter much for them.

As for the original topic, we've only had 2 sessions with our Barbarian but so far he seems a little weak. Which is what I've seen a lot of threads on the WOTC boards say. Unless you spend the feat for heavy armor, their AC is so low that he gets hit every time someone attacks him. The player of our Barbarian has insisted on sticking to Light Armor, as he feels that's the way the class is meant to be played and he feels its only right to playtest it the way it was designed to see if it works.

So far, one interesting thing I've noticed is that playing this way means that he has to do a lot of thinking. He has to get the enemies set up in the right way to take advantage of his free charge, he has to creatively use his at wills to keep the temporary hitpoints coming at the right times to save himself. It ends up being kind of weird that the Barbarian is doing the most strategic thinking in the party.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

So far, one interesting thing I've noticed is that playing this way means that he has to do a lot of thinking. He has to get the enemies set up in the right way to take advantage of his free charge, he has to creatively use his at wills to keep the temporary hitpoints coming at the right times to save himself. It ends up being kind of weird that the Barbarian is doing the most strategic thinking in the party.

Yes it is. It seems to be a flaw. Just like the Pathfinder Beta Rage Points - for playing an "all-out" mindlessly raging character, fiddling with points or tactical positioning just seems wrong to me... I hope they look at this.

 

[Cadfan]

?

Katar: d6 (high crit)
Shuriken in rogue's hands: d6
Short sword: d6
Kukri: d6 (brutal 1)
Sling: 1d6
Rapier: d8
Double sword: d8

Also (and correct me if I'm wrong), rogues sneak attack says crossbows, not hand crossbows. While they may be proficient with hand crossbows, getting proficient with a superior crossbow isn't out of bounds.

Not to mention that in Martial Power, the Ruthless Ruffian can sneak attack with Maces and (I think) hammers.

Sure, but daggers are 1d4 (compensated by the accuracy bonus, I know), and while the rogue has weapons that equal a 1d8 weapon, that's where the fighter starts.

A low [w] weapon isn't bad, particularly for the rogue who compensates with sneak attack. But what that means is that doing 2[w] isn't as big of a boost as it would be if [w] was 1d10 instead of 1d4. This means that firing off an encounter power or a daily power for a rogue usually isn't the route to pwning someone. Usually its just sneak attacking with piercing strike (which often deals more damage, adjusted for accuracy, than encounters or dailies that don't target a non ac defense).

 

[Korvax]

Yes it is. It seems to be a flaw. Just like the Pathfinder Beta Rage Points - for playing an "all-out" mindlessly raging character, fiddling with points or tactical positioning just seems wrong to me... I hope they look at this.

I hope they do consider keeping a level of subtle tactical benefit to the class.

Easy to play, hard to master is a great design goal for every class, in my opinion. Besides, even in fantasy novels, the cunning barbarians were always the most successful.

 

[Rechan]

Except that the Katar is considered a dagger, so in a rogue's hands its +4 to hit, 1d6, high crit.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Yes it is. It seems to be a flaw. Just like the Pathfinder Beta Rage Points - for playing an "all-out" mindlessly raging character, fiddling with points or tactical positioning just seems wrong to me... I hope they look at this.

Um, the player does the point fiddle; not the Character.

Bob hasa job in real world as a lawyer but is Archemuk the Grumbled as a Barbarian in D&D.
Bob does the fiddling; Archemuk does the dismembering.

 

[Monkey Boy]

Play report - 2 sessions in

I played a minotaur barbarian with a two handed maul. I got the rage rules wrong and broke the game. No one at the table noticed. ENworld has shown me the error of my ways.

I shall go stand in the corner now.