When did I stop being WotC's target audience?

My counter-question is...

"When did we start asking ourselves questions like 'am I still Company X's target audience?' instead of questions like 'Do I like this product and does it suit my needs?'"

I'd ask David Foster Wallace, but, sadly, he passed away a short time ago (god rest his soul).
 

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My counter-question is...

"When did we start asking ourselves questions like 'am I still Company X's target audience?' instead of questions like 'Do I like this product and does it suit my needs?'"

I'd ask David Foster Wallace, but, sadly, he passed away a short time ago (god rest his soul).

As I pointed out in my forked thread, it isn't about whether or not somebody likes the game. Its about wanting the D&D brand to be the game you want it to be. People want their game to have the D&D label and the high profile and drawing power that comes with it.
 

There are so many different and conflicting opinions on what IS D&D that this would have been true no matter what happened. They had to **** off somebody.

This is not about what D&D is or is not. It's the difference between:
(A) People who say "I like D&D (1975-2005)".
(B) People who say "I do not like D&D (1975-2005)".
 

I'll re-read the multiclassing rules when I get the opportunity and see what I'm missing, then -- everything I saw suggested that multiclassing was "Here, you get one power from the other class, now don't bother us you weirdo."
The multi-classing rules in 4E is the single best improvement over 3.x that exists in the edition change. The powers you get from the other class with a multi-class feat are just as powerful as a character with that class would receive.

In 3.x, if you play a 10th-level wizard who takes a level of fighter (and assuming you have the same STR score as an optimized fighter), you have the attack bonus of a 6th-level fighter.

In 4E, if you play a 10th level wizard who takes the fighter multiclass feat, you not only get the fighter (rather potent) marking ability, you get the same attack bonus as a fighter of your level.

In the Wednesday night game I DM, one of my players has an eladrin wizard who is stocking up on fighter multiclass feats and is having a ball of it. I'm rather jealous, having failed so miserably at making an effective Ftr-Mu with 3E core.

In the game I play in, I decided my paladin was not going to be a defender. The class roles my look like straitjackets, but they aren't. Creative use of race/class combos and feat selection can turn any class into a stand-in for any other class. In my case, I turned my paladin into a striker/leader. No one even noticed that our warlord was gone.

The trick is to think outside the box: if multiclassing = having levels in multiple classes, then yeah, it's a disappointment. If multiclassing is being able to thematically and tactically represent more than one class effectively, then 4E beats 3.x in my game.
 

This is not about what D&D is or is not. It's the difference between:
(A) People who say "I like D&D (1975-2005)".
(B) People who say "I do not like D&D (1975-2005)".
What about all the other D&D players who do not fit into your categories? Say, someone who likes 2E and 3E but no other edition? Or someone who only likes OD&D?
 


1) Who called it a "conspiracy theory"? I, in the post I linked, was expressing my reasons to fear the shape of 4e. And in retrospect, it seems I was right.
2) The designer confessed it, but you disagree with us? So, you disagree with the designer?
Psion, you see the button next to your name in this post? That will take you to the post the quote is from. Problem on EnWorld is that everytime I quote you, I miss out all the bits that were quotes in your post. (Beat's me why that should be so, but there it is.) Here is the post I was quoting from. It shows that you agree to someone else calling the RPGA influence on 4E to be a conspiracy theory.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...ds-coasts-target-audience-12.html#post4520332

People should be aware that the RPGA altered its principles since 4E was chartered, and in some respect made it more like non-tournament play. For instance, the DM is allowed to alter the CRs (hence monsters, traps, ...) of the encounters depending on how much the group is struggling with it. So (a) the influence of RPGA standards on 4E play at home isn't as ugly as it were if the RPGA would have kept their standards unaltered, and (b) everything I just said adds to the theory that RPGA play set a fundamental standard for how 4E was designed: WotC using 4E to bring tournament and home play (of D&D) into closer proximity of each other.
 

This is not about what D&D is or is not. It's the difference between:
(A) People who say "I like D&D (1975-2005)".
(B) People who say "I do not like D&D (1975-2005)".

This statement is very presumptuous considering how differently people play D&D, not to mention various editions. Personally, I find 4E more "D&D" than any other edition, with 2E a close second and 3.x dead last.
 


Those folks claiming that there wasn't such a huge schizm back when 3x was released, really do need to go back and pour over the old ENWorld and RPGNet forum archives.

Honest question: could someone find some of these on ENWorld?

I did a quick check at the archives here but only found the ones that go back to the Great Server Change of 2002.

I'm pretty sure that there was nowhere near as great a schism as there is now on ENWorld. On rpg.net, I have little idea. I wasn't reading it as frequently. My impression is that rpg.net had a lot more angst and strife over the 2e/3e change. But as for ENWorld, I'd like to see the old threads. I'm sure there were several, but I don't remember anything like it is now. Certainly, I don't remember a ban on discussions over the editions like we had this time. I am happy to be shown otherwise however. My google-fu is just too weak to show myself, I guess! :)
 

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