The Correct Procedure to Die

[andarilhor]

The correct method is that 10-19 does nothing. You roll every round:

1-9 Mark off a death save failure checkbox (3 and the character dies). These only reset after a short (5 minute) rest.
10-19 You are OK for now, but keep rolling every round as long as you are in negative HPs.
20 You recover. If you have a healing surge left you may spend one and stand up with 1/4 HPs, otherwise you stand up with 1 HP. (Note: you are still prone and must spend a move action on your turn to stand up and sometimes it might be worth it to just lie there and play dead).

I apologize if I am fuzzy on the details or got something wrong as I am doing this from memory without the books from work.

Just a little correction: These only resets after a extended rest.
So, If have a death mark in your first encounter and another 2 in your third encounter of the day... you are dead!

 

[Mouseferatu]

Just a little correction: These only resets after a extended rest.

Actually, to correct your correction...

It just says "rest." It doesn't say it has to be an extended rest. So a short rest would qualify.

 

[questing gm]

Actually, to correct your correction...

It just says "rest." It doesn't say it has to be an extended rest. So a short rest would qualify.

Yeah. I wished WoTC would clear that up.

 

[Rafe]

The correct method is that 10-19 does nothing. You roll every round:

1-9 Mark off a death save failure checkbox (3 and the character dies). These only reset after a short (5 minute) rest.
10-19 You are OK for now, but keep rolling every round as long as you are in negative HPs.
20 You recover. If you have a healing surge left you may spend one and stand up with 1/4 HPs, otherwise you stand up with 1 HP. (Note: you are still prone and must spend a move action on your turn to stand up and sometimes it might be worth it to just lie there and play dead).

And I'm fairly sure the 20 has to be a natural 20, no? Also, as per Mouseferatu's post, it's any kind of rest - short or extended.

Additionally, if healed after being stabilized, the target is treated as being at 0 hp for the purposes of determining amount of hp given from healing surge + any bonuses from Inspiring Word or Healing Word.

The "1 HP" thing is only for those knocked unconscious and not receiving any healing - they regain 1 hp after a short rest. (p. 295 for both Healing a Dying Character and Knocking Creatures Unconscious.)

For those damaged "lethally" and taken to less than 0 hp, it just says "...regain hit points after an extended rest." An extended rest, as per p. 263, states you get all hp and healing surges back. So someone stabilized can't return to consciousness and regular activity until after healing from a Lay On Hands, Inspiring Word or Healing Word OR until after an Extended Rest (if they don't have a Second Wind to activate). Or a potion. ... or waiting 5 minutes to activate the now-ready Second Wind.

Whew...

Of course, I could be totally wrong and, if I am, would like some input.

 

[James McMurray]

And I'm fairly sure the 20 has to be a natural 20, no?

If it had to be a natural 20, the text wouldn't say "20 or higher."

 

[Rafe]

If it had to be a natural 20, the text wouldn't say "20 or higher."

Good stuff. That's why I asked and didn't state.

 

[CovertOps]

Additionally, if healed after being stabilized, the target is treated as being at 0 hp for the purposes of determining amount of hp given from healing surge + any bonuses from Inspiring Word or Healing Word.

ANY healing of an unconcious character is considered to start at 0 HP. I don't recall offhand where in the rules it says this, but it was something to the effect that you never start at a deficit. You could still be dying and have -30 HP and any healing you recieve would start at 0 HP and count up. The fact that a character has been stabilized has no relavence to this.

The "1 HP" thing is only for those knocked unconscious and not receiving any healing - they regain 1 hp after a short rest. (p. 295 for both Healing a Dying Character and Knocking Creatures Unconscious.)

IIRC rolling a 20 (or more) on your death save with no healing surges left also gets you 1 HP.

For those damaged "lethally" and taken to less than 0 hp, it just says "...regain hit points after an extended rest." An extended rest, as per p. 263, states you get all hp and healing surges back. So someone stabilized can't return to consciousness and regular activity until after healing from a Lay On Hands, Inspiring Word or Healing Word OR until after an Extended Rest (if they don't have a Second Wind to activate). Or a potion. ... or waiting 5 minutes to activate the now-ready Second Wind.

Going on the assumption that your previous statement is correct ("...regain 1 HP after a short rest...") then as long as you have healing surges left you may spend them after a short rest. I'm fairly sure this is correct, but again I'm at work and cannot check. I am positive that you can spend as many healing surges as you have after any short rest. I'm just not clear on how that interacts with being unconcious if at all.

 

[Rafe]

ANY healing of an unconcious character is considered to start at 0 HP. I don't recall offhand where in the rules it says this, but it was something to the effect that you never start at a deficit. You could still be dying and have -30 HP and any healing you recieve would start at 0 HP and count up. The fact that a character has been stabilized has no relavence to this.

?? That's what I wrote. Re-read that part of my message.

IIRC rolling a 20 (or more) on your death save with no healing surges left also gets you 1 HP.

No, better: It allows you to use a healing surge, unless you have none left. The second part of that section on p. 295 makes no sense to me; the part about "expressed as a negative number...".

Going on the assumption that your previous statement is correct ("...regain 1 HP after a short rest...") then as long as you have healing surges left you may spend them after a short rest. I'm fairly sure this is correct, but again I'm at work and cannot check. I am positive that you can spend as many healing surges as you have after any short rest. I'm just not clear on how that interacts with being unconcious if at all.

Yup, that's right. But you have to be conscious to spend healing surges, don't you? Otherwise, a person could heal up after a short rest and never mind an extended one, as per the rules. It says that if you're stabilized, your condition does not change. You no longer need to roll saves vs dying, but your condition does not improve until after healing or an extended rest. Now, if someone else in the group needs only a short rest to gain back full use of Healing Word or Inspiring Word, then it's game on. They use that, and no issues.

As I said, the 1 hp thing is only for people who are specifically knocked unconscious instead of killed. That does not apply to characters reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by a monster. 0 and less is called "dying," not "unconscious," in terms of a condition. So they can't return to 1 hp after a short rest.

 

[Kordeth]

?? That's what I wrote. Re-read that part of my message.

The way you worded it made it sound like you were saying that you only count up from 0 if you were stabilized first, which isn't correct.

No, better: It allows you to use a healing surge, unless you have none left. The second part of that section on p. 295 makes no sense to me; the part about "expressed as a negative number...".

It's a typo. It's been errata'd out.

Yup, that's right. But you have to be conscious to spend healing surges, don't you? Otherwise, a person could heal up after a short rest and never mind an extended one, as per the rules. It says that if you're stabilized, your condition does not change. You no longer need to roll saves vs dying, but your condition does not improve until after healing or an extended rest. Now, if someone else in the group needs only a short rest to gain back full use of Healing Word or Inspiring Word, then it's game on. They use that, and no issues.

You don't have to be conscious to spend healing surges per say, because "spend a healing surge" is not an action. In order to spend a healing surge ordinarily, there has to be a trigger, which has an action type--and if that action type is anything but "no action," you can't do it while unconscious. Spending healing surges at the end of a short rest is not part of combat, therefore it doesn't have an action type, therefore you can spend healing surges after a short rest even if you're unconscious or dying.

As I said, the 1 hp thing is only for people who are specifically knocked unconscious instead of killed. That does not apply to characters reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by a monster. 0 and less is called "dying," not "unconscious," in terms of a condition. So they can't return to 1 hp after a short rest.

Correct.

 

[James McMurray]

There is erratta. The "expressed as a negative number" part was removed.

"If you roll 20 or higher but have no healing surges left, your condition doesn’t change."