When you have a power contingent on an enemy moving...

[Saeviomagy]

Aren't there specific powers that cause a foe to move (ie cause fear) as opposed to being slid, pushed or pulled?

I would expect that things that require a foe to move would need a power to have that wordingto trigger them, and that slides, pushes, pulls and even shifts wouldn't work.

 

[jasin]

Could it be that the moving away referenced there must take place during the enemies turn? ( I think a close reading of the text confirms this interpretation.)

Of course, I don't really see how it could be read otherwise.

If so, then forced movement wouldn't be a common option.

An ally could ready an action to push/pull/slide the enemy on the enemy's turn. It might not be common, since in 4E readied actions are reactions rather than interrupts and you won't always be willing to let the enemy act before you, but in some cases getting in some extra damage will be more important.

 

[jasin]

Okay, here is an example on how Booming Blade -can- be forced.

You've Boomed him, and a Sword and Board fighter marks him. You've Aegis'd some other dude, so it don't matter. But you've been taking the beats so he decides to attack you rather than the fighter, just because you're more likely to go down. He attacks you, so the Fighter steps in and says 'NOT THIS DAY VILLAIN' and hits him using Shield Push feat. The enemy is forced to move one square, and that triggers the Boom of your Boom.

The enemy has moved, it's during his turn, after the beginning, so yeah, Boom triggers.

The fighter's mark lets the fighter make a basic attack, not an At-Will (not even an opportunity attack, so Heavy Blade Opportunity won't help).

The fighter could just read Tide of Iron, though...

 

[jasin]

Aren't there specific powers that cause a foe to move (ie cause fear) as opposed to being slid, pushed or pulled?

I would expect that things that require a foe to move would need a power to have that wordingto trigger them, and that slides, pushes, pulls and even shifts wouldn't work.

Excluding even shifts would make Booming Blade terribly limited, but it was exactly this kind of reasoning that ultimately led me to ask my original question.

See, I wanted to make sure whether it would work on shifts, but when I looked at the list of actions in combat in the PHB, there actually isn't such an action as "move". There's "shift", "walk", "run", all move actions that result in different kinds of movement, so it seems to me that each of those would result in the target "moving away" and taking damage from Booming Blade.

But then "push", "pull" or "slide" also result in different kinds of movement, so...

Then again, Cause Fear (and many other powers) use a wording along the lines of "you can move", which apparently means the same thing (for creatures without unusual movement modes) as "walk".

But yet again, some powers (the warlord's Villain's Nightmare, for example) that could use "walk" instead, implying this is not the same thing as "walk".

Or maybe we're just expecting more precision with the keywords than the books offer.

 

[Danceofmasks]

The fighter's mark lets the fighter make a basic attack, not an At-Will (not even an opportunity attack, so Heavy Blade Opportunity won't help).

The fighter could just read Tide of Iron, though...

Shield push only applies to the attack granted by combat challenge.

 

[jasin]

Shield push only applies to the attack granted by combat challenge.

Gah. For some reason, I thought DracoSuave was talking about Tide of Iron (even though he said Shield Push, and even though I know Tide of Iron is called Tide of Iron).

 

[Morgan_Scott82]

I believe the intent (I know shaky ground already arguing intent, but eh) behind Booming Blade and other similar powers is that the target be incentivised against moving away, and therefore applies to things the target does\has control over. Basically the standard we've been using in my game is if the target spent a move action to move away i.e. shift, move, run, or a standard action that includes movement i.e. charge or a power that allows a shift, then the additional damage is triggered.

I do not believe the power's additional effect is affected by forced movement at all. Otherwise it would be possible (and rather easy) to trigger the additional damage every round. Essentially swordmage goes, monster goes but doesn't move for fear of the extra damage, swordmages ally goes and uses a forced movement power on the monster. The monster started its turn next to the swordmage, therefore the necessary condition was met, and the ally caused it to move away. Thus the extra damage could be triggered every round regardless of what the DM decided the monster would do.

I do not believe this is how the power is meant to function.

 

[DracoSuave]

Movement is movement is movement. The power does not state 'chooses to move.' Choice is irrelevent. However, I'd say that the power's movement-penalizer only works on the enemy's own turn, so you have to devote a lot of actions just to get that little bit of damage.

Is it effective? Yes.
Is it cheesy? No. It's tactics, and enemies can use the same 'cheese' (and even better because of their improved coordination of movement/attacks that players can't really do).

As a DM, you're designing encounters to take advantage of synergies like this. Players should be doing the same.

 

[Syrsuro]

To play devil's advocate here:

There is a distinction between "moves away" and "is moved away" and if someone else is doing it to me the latter applies and not the former.

Carl

 

[Nail]

Could it be that the moving away referenced there must take place during the enemies turn? ( I think a close reading of the text confirms this interpretation.) If so, then forced movement wouldn't be a common option.

Of course, I don't really see how it could be read otherwise.

I'm glad you agree.

"Moves away" means what it says: if the target moves from a square adjacent to you, to a different square. This can be done any number of ways (shift, walk, fall, run....), and doesn't exclude forced movement. So sure => forced movement that happens during your target's turn activates the power.