D&D 4E 4E Skill Challenges - An Exercise in Dice Rolling?

[James McMurray]

Hey Mike, while we're on the subject of skill challenges, what method do you use to determine the right DCs?

 

[Doctor Proctor]

In our group, we go along the lines of the OP's second example. We RP our responses, and then do a roll along with it. Then our DM will award a bonus of +/- 2 depending on how our RP was. So it's not just a dice roll, and you can still get a good result even if you're not that strong of an RPer.

 

[mearls]

Hey Mike, while we're on the subject of skill challenges, what method do you use to determine the right DCs?

I usually use the DCs from the book, but keep in mind that I try to revolve a challenge through a number of different skills. The DCs tend to become too easy if you let the players hit on the same skill again and again, particularly if they have optimized for that skill.

When I need to make a DC on the fly, I use a simple rule of thumb:
10 + half level + 5 if I think that a character with skill training should succeed half the time + the stat mod of a character who should succeed half the time.

Basically, I picture the character who should succeed 50% of the time, and build a DC to fit him.

Also, I am somewhat liberal in handing out automatic successes (and the occasional failure) for really good or really bad ideas. Otherwise, I reward ideas with check modifiers.

 

[mearls]

Holy Crap! I never expected to hear from you Mike! Thanks so much for your detailed advice. I will try your three scenes/three paths rule and post again after I have tried it in a game.

I hope it works out for you! I've been doing a lot of thinking about skill challenges for the series on them I'm writing for Dragon, and this seemed like a good place to air a few of them.

I think skill challenges are a place where everyone, from staff designers to complete newbie DMs, are still learning the ropes.

 

[Stalker0]

I think Mike's point can be summed up this way....put a little oomph in your skill challenges.

You shouldn't take the old scene where you would roll a few diplomacy checks and turn that into a skill challenge. A skill challenge should be a big deal, an important part of the adventure. Treat a good skill challenge like a good fight, and plan some different dynamics.

 

[wedgeski]

Not least because you're dishing out monster-equivalent XP for a Skill Challenge, or thereabouts, they should be taken very seriously. I must admit to not quite having a handle on them yet, but one change I've made is avoiding telegraphing them so much. If, at the end of an hour's worth of roleplaying and skill checks, my guys are surprised to find they've just succeeded at a Skill Challenge they didn't know they were engaged in, my job will be done.

 

[AnthonyRoberson]

A couple of more questions for you Mike if you are still monitoring this thread.

1. Do you suggest which skills the players should use for a particular challenge or just let them decide?

2. Do you require the players to roleplay or detail how they will use a particular skill or just let them roll?

Thanks!

 

[ExploderWizard]

I generally frown upon requiring a bunch of anti-social gamers to try to play out the charisma of their characters. That's usually when the games I attend end up being about who can make the most fart jokes. Because funny knows no awkwardness.

If you have a group of people gathered together playing a game with each other, then how anti-social can they be? You don't have to use a distinctly different voice, or affect mannerisms to say what you want to say in character.

 

[James McMurray]

I usually use the DCs from the book, but keep in mind that I try to revolve a challenge through a number of different skills. The DCs tend to become too easy if you let the players hit on the same skill again and again, particularly if they have optimized for that skill.

By "from the book" do you mean pre- or post-errata? We've tried both, some house ruled versions, the errata with the footnote added back in, and anything else we can think of but I've been having a hard time finding a good balance. The rough estimate method you gave looks good, but then what's a good XP award?

 

[andarilhor]

By "from the book" do you mean pre- or post-errata? We've tried both, some house ruled versions, the errata with the footnote added back in, and anything else we can think of but I've been having a hard time finding a good balance. The rough estimate method you gave looks good, but then what's a good XP award?

I believe the level in the equation it´s exactly to get the XP award of the skill challenge.

Something I have thinking about is to put combat and skill challenge in the same encounter. For example: The players needs to convince the baron to send troops to combat the invasion from the neighboor kingdom, but one of the advisors of the baron is a traitor and gets in the way. The players need to win in a SC but each round the advisor can make a skill check to takes away one of the party successes. Thats will add tension to the scene, as the players will have a greater chance to failure.

What do you guys think about that?