DM Obligations and Player Dynamics

[bento]

I think my following issue is something most DMs have faced from time to time, and I'd like to see how you dealt with it.

I'm not enthusiastic with the game I'm currently running. I'm running Pathfinder's Crimson Throne AP, and while I like several aspects of it, I'm finding that having everything figured out in advance leaves me with less to do on the creative side. As I have less need to be creative, my other prep work (statting foes for encounters, dealing with character sub-plots) to be a chore that I put off until the last minute. Looking around the room during the last session I also noticed that some of the players also appeared to be less engaged.

What I worry about though is we've been playing this AP since March and the characters are now 5th level. I feel if I say "hey, let's completely drop this game and do something different" that we might lose some players who feel invested. Here's the breakdown of the group:

Player 1 (host): plays this F2F and also runs an online D&D game. Says she only likes D&D
Player 2 (personal friend from past): can only commit to our game and only wants to play D&D. Can't afford time/money for other systems.
Player 3 (friend since met through game): willing to play anything as long as fun.
Player 4: 30+ years of RPGs, has played most other games.

When I brought this situation up to player 3, I likened the situation to eating steak for every meal. I'd like to try some different systems (True20, d20 Modern, GURPS 4th Ed., FATE) and different settings (historical, CoC, lite SciFi). Personally, I love running story arcs for about 10-12 sessions, and then move to something completely different for a while.

Running different games keeps me engaged as a DM, but I'm afraid that the D&D only players will balk. They are a DMs dream group - putting a lot into their backgrounds, journaling and doing some tasks I don't want to. There is also an issue of money - when we started this AP I asked they put in funds to buy the AP books. If I "drop" the game for a while will they feel like I've rooked them for the cash? We're talking about $30 per person.

How would you handle this? I think tonight (our last session for the year) is a great time to do a re-assessment, but I'm not sure exactly how I should either broach the subject or give some viable alternatives.

Love to hear your opinions on this.

Thanks.

Solution taken - see post #18.

 

[NerfedWizard]

Maybe run a monthly game on a weekend, without interrupting your existing game, invite all, and see who shows. Keep your existing game going. Tell the D&D-only players that you will handle most of the rules and CharGen for them - they just need a 10-minute chat from you on the game-setting, and to give you ideas for the characters they want to play, which you can then generate. Give them a 5-minute chat on the basics of the rules. Just ideas, these.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

That's a tough question. As a player, I definitely prefer long-term campaigns. I also like one-shots and convention games. As you've guessed by now, I'm not a big fan of that area in the middle. (As a DM, it's another story. I'd probably enjoy arcs of 10-12 sessions, and then switching systems.)

I have two suggestions, both of which you've probably already considered:

(1) Talk to the other players. If you're right, and they really are unengaged, they might be more willing than you think to move on to something else.

(2) Try a one-shot every five sessions or so, depending on how often you play. If your players balk, explain that it's necessary to prevent burn-out.

Oh, and as far as the money? They've gotten eight months -- how many hours? -- of entertainment for their 30 bucks each. If they get raised hackles because of that ...

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Compromise is key. You want a story arc, they want D&D. Ask them if they will try a one-shot of a game you are interested in playing. Provide pre-made characters so they don't have to invest. With the promise of getting back to Pathfinder after a single session, they may be more willing. Let them know that it will help you "stretch your legs" and give you a short break from Pathfinder so you can come back to it refreshed. Tonight would have been a good time for the one-shot. You're about to take what sounds like at least a three week break from Pathfinder anyway, so what would another week have mattered? But I'm guessing you wouldn't have the time to put together the one-shot or talk to them about before springing it on them.

 

[billd91]

Instead of doing it on a regular schedule time-wise, run a palette-cleansing one-shot between chapters (or other logical stopping points) of Crimson Throne. I think it will be less disruptive of the ongoing game if it's based on natural breaks in the game rather than every 5 sessions, for example.

Whip up some pre-gens for the first time you do it with a little bit of rules quick-start style. Then play out a short scenario designed to highlight the strengths of that game or its differences with D&D. Then see how they liked it afterwards.
By doing it with pre-gens, you reduce the amount of investment the other players have to make - which should be better for the ones who don't have the time, money, or interest to really invest in another system.

For systems relatively close to D&D, like True20, suggest to the players that, if they like it, you could try a segment of the Crimson Throne in that system so that you could all get in a little playing with a slightly different system, but still keep the main game story going.

 

[Job]

To keep the creative streak alive, I look for ways to modify and enhance my AP's around the desires of my players, sometimes significantly rerouting the main railroad while keeping the trail of clues intact.

My players all have special items that they crave (e.g. a dancing sword and boots of speed) and special modules that they've heard about and would like to tackle (e.g. Tomb of Horrors, and Temple of Elemental Evil), so I throw these in as sidequests to the main campaign or as replacements for a module or two. And whenever I read a particularly interesting new module, such as the "Skeletons of Scarwall", I look for ways to insert it into the campaign.

As examples, I'm running the Shackled City AP but I've changed many locations and sequences of events. The home city of Cauldron hasn't changed and the key NPC's, villains, and main clues are still there. I wasn't excited about the second module entitled "Flood Season" of the Shackled City AP, so I replaced it with "The Styes" from Dungeon Magazine. [sblock=Shackled City spoiler]A key NPC, a paladin named Alek Tercival, gets kidnapped somewhere around the 4th module of the Shackled City AP and requires rescuing, but I wasn't enthusiastic about the original kidnappers hideout, so I replaced that location with the Temple of Elemental Evil (which my players had mentioned an interest in a couple of times).[/sblock]

So I've kept the structure of the Adventure Path intact (as long as it interests me), but the I've personalized each individual segment of the AP by providing special rewards in sidequests for my players and by inserting alternate locations/challenges that have captured my imagination.

Job.

 

[taliesin15]

Something I tried a few times in my last long term campaign was to throw into the middle of a story arc a completely unrelated, different in tone set of adventures. In one case it involved travel to another plane of existence and was a quest, in another case it was something sort of improvised on my part using monsters they'd never encountered on an entirely unfamiliar terrain.

I've been working on another long term campaign destined to start up in a few months, and I've already worked up some sidebar adventures that will stand out in terms of flavor. One of them involves a love triangle between three key NPCs in the town the party will be based at first. I wonder how many DMs have even tried to run an adventure with Romance as the theme? It never works (rarely) with PCs--that is, most players will not have their characters fall in love, and will usually blow off NPCs falling in love with them. But believe me, if you can make this work in your campaign, it will bring an entirely new flavor.

Another idea is to blend themes--one that works sometimes is a story arc blending Comedy and Tragedy--say inventing a story line that at first seems to be entirely Comic, but with subtle and very deep Tragic consequences.

Another one is to invent an adventure where the PCs totally have to use their wits--much easier to pull off at one point in Dungeon (say answering a tough Riddle or Traps/Tricks)--if you can come up with something where fighting and magic use have no role whatsoever, maybe even something entirely skill-based, you're going to have something probably more interesting to play for all there. Three possibilities for this: an enchanted forest populated with magical creatures that are essentially benign, and the PCs are looking for some kind of lost or hidden item there; crossing or travelling through treacherous terrain and weather; finding something hidden or elusive in a city they've never been to, and the entire quest hinges on clever role-playing by the PCs.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Running different games keeps me engaged as a DM, but I'm afraid that the D&D only players will balk. They are a DMs dream group - putting a lot into their backgrounds, journaling and doing some tasks I don't want to. There is also an issue of money - when we started this AP I asked they put in funds to buy the AP books. If I "drop" the game for a while will they feel like I've rooked them for the cash? We're talking about $30 per person.

Ouch. Do the gaming materials belong to the group? If I run a game that requires the purchase of new material I never ask players to fork over any money. I try and make sure that they can play in my game without an investment. If they want access to a rule book that they can read at leisure then they are welcome, but under no obligation to buy it.

As a player I expect the same treatment. If I have a chance to play in a new game without buying a book I usually end up buying one after a few sessions if it looks like the game is decent.

For your situation perhaps if you are no longer engaged by running this campaign maybe someone else can run it and you can enjoy the material as a player? In any case you shouldn't feel forced to run a game thats no fun for you. If a gripe about the monetary investment comes up then let the players have all the materials since you aren't enjoying them as a DM anyway.

 

[Agamon]

I understand this completely. My last game was an AP and by the end I was getting bored from the restraints. My new game is a sandbox, but before I started, there was one caveat to the players: we won't just be playing one game, it'll be more like two or three games, pausing on one and moving to another before going back again. That way, we get to play different games, different styles, different genres and don't get stuck in a rut, but still get to play longer games, they just get broken up into segements.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

If I run a game that requires the purchase of new material I never ask players to fork over any money. I try and make sure that they can play in my game without an investment. If they want access to a rule book that they can read at leisure then they are welcome, but under no obligation to buy it.

I'm the same way. But I've had two players over the years that feel they won't be able to enjoy a new game unless they buy the books. And they balked when times were tough, money was scarce and I brought up the prospect of running a new game. I don't understand why they felt they needed the book(s) to enjoy a game when I was perfectly willing to allow them to borrow mine if they wanted to learn more about the game.