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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
DM Obligations and Player Dynamics
- Thread starter bento
- Start date
Calico_Jack73
First Post
I know what you mean... typically when I try to get a group to try a new game I make sure that everyone is aware that they aren't required to purchase a new book. In general my favorite games are rules-lite anyway so once the characters are created there really is no need for a book for the players. My favorite games are also generally cheaper than most. The new World of Darkness core book is $17 at Amazon. The Palladium FRPG is $27 for the core book at their on-line store. In both cases all you need to play is just the core book. Heck, I'd even buy dinner for everyone one night to help make up for the cost of the book.
Life is too short to play games that you aren't having fun with. If you aren't having fun then you are working... not gaming.
Another thing you might try is to disquise the game you want to play as something else. In truth you are disguising it from yourself and the players. I'll explain...
Me and one of my players really want to give Dark Heresy a whirl but some of the other players have been kind of apprehensive about it and want to stick with D&D. I realized that the important things in the Dark Heresy setting (Warhammer 40K) could easily be replicated in a fantasy setting using the D&D rules. I figure that I could tell the same stories in my own homebrew setting where the PCs will be the agents of an Inquisitor of a powerful Mage-Emperor. The Empire is beset on all sides by the powers of the Abyss and fantasy races such as Orks and Elves. Against overt attacks the Mage-Emperor has his elite Knights and regular army but against covert incursions the PC-Agents come into play.
Guess what... I've just set the stage to run a Dark Heresy game while staying in a fantasy setting and using the rules that my players want to use. If you are a GM like me then the story rather than the system is the important thing. If the system is more important to you then this method may not work so well.
Life is too short to play games that you aren't having fun with. If you aren't having fun then you are working... not gaming.
Another thing you might try is to disquise the game you want to play as something else. In truth you are disguising it from yourself and the players. I'll explain...
Me and one of my players really want to give Dark Heresy a whirl but some of the other players have been kind of apprehensive about it and want to stick with D&D. I realized that the important things in the Dark Heresy setting (Warhammer 40K) could easily be replicated in a fantasy setting using the D&D rules. I figure that I could tell the same stories in my own homebrew setting where the PCs will be the agents of an Inquisitor of a powerful Mage-Emperor. The Empire is beset on all sides by the powers of the Abyss and fantasy races such as Orks and Elves. Against overt attacks the Mage-Emperor has his elite Knights and regular army but against covert incursions the PC-Agents come into play.
Guess what... I've just set the stage to run a Dark Heresy game while staying in a fantasy setting and using the rules that my players want to use. If you are a GM like me then the story rather than the system is the important thing. If the system is more important to you then this method may not work so well.
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bento
Explorer
Thanks everyone for the tips so far!
About asking for funds - the up-front cost of this AP is $120. After throwing in supplemental materials, miniatures, and office supplies, we're over $200. Everyone in the group is a working professional and can afford to put money in. Given that I'm also expected to work 2-4 hours before every session reading over material, answering e-mails, creating hand-outs, painting minis, etc., I don't feel guilty asking for funds up front.
Where I have the heartbreak is I like the sandbox approach. The results often surprise both me and the players. I can tune the adventure to what players want the most at that time (mystery, kicking butt, cool encounters). APs are great, in that someone has already done a lot of the work (and reduces my prep time), but I feel somewhat beholden to the story line. My players all have interesting hooks, but I'm not taking advantage of it like I should. Part of this is for fear that if I put too many side adventures in, then the characters become too powerful when we get back to the AP story. And I do have players that don't want to go through an adventure without getting XP (tried to do that last month).
I guess I'll bring the situation up tonight before we start. We're all adults right?
Please pass along any other ideas!
About asking for funds - the up-front cost of this AP is $120. After throwing in supplemental materials, miniatures, and office supplies, we're over $200. Everyone in the group is a working professional and can afford to put money in. Given that I'm also expected to work 2-4 hours before every session reading over material, answering e-mails, creating hand-outs, painting minis, etc., I don't feel guilty asking for funds up front.
Where I have the heartbreak is I like the sandbox approach. The results often surprise both me and the players. I can tune the adventure to what players want the most at that time (mystery, kicking butt, cool encounters). APs are great, in that someone has already done a lot of the work (and reduces my prep time), but I feel somewhat beholden to the story line. My players all have interesting hooks, but I'm not taking advantage of it like I should. Part of this is for fear that if I put too many side adventures in, then the characters become too powerful when we get back to the AP story. And I do have players that don't want to go through an adventure without getting XP (tried to do that last month).
I guess I'll bring the situation up tonight before we start. We're all adults right?
Please pass along any other ideas!
Ydars
Explorer
It sounds to me like the problem is the AP, not D&D as such.
I know you have put alot of money into the AP but I think it is not for you and you should move the story away from the AP and just mine it for cool encounters and locations and start picking up on your players preferences and background.
Don't ditch the game; find a way to reboot it by moving into a new story arc custom designed by you. That way you can play D&D, keep their characters and satisfy yourself; you don't even need the players permission for this and I probably wouldn't discuss it with them.
I know you have put alot of money into the AP but I think it is not for you and you should move the story away from the AP and just mine it for cool encounters and locations and start picking up on your players preferences and background.
Don't ditch the game; find a way to reboot it by moving into a new story arc custom designed by you. That way you can play D&D, keep their characters and satisfy yourself; you don't even need the players permission for this and I probably wouldn't discuss it with them.
I never play any module as written. I add my own creativity to it. If it is something so scripted and the players want it so badly they would have to chose someone else to play CPU.
Change things they way you want. It isn't like the players know what to expect anyway right?
The module has an overarching plot, but getting through it is for the DM to shape for himself and his players. No written module will work as-is because the people who wrote it are not the ones that always DM and/or play it.
Change things they way you want. It isn't like the players know what to expect anyway right?
The module has an overarching plot, but getting through it is for the DM to shape for himself and his players. No written module will work as-is because the people who wrote it are not the ones that always DM and/or play it.
(I only skimmed the replies so this may well have been said already)...
Not having read that campaign, I don't know if it's possible -- but is it possible to take what you have as insipiration and then just run with it in your own creative direction?
That way you'll still use what everyone helped support and you'll also get to flex more creativity in to it.
Or else run an alt game (it can still be d&d) with a campaign of your own design - for alternate sessions, or once a month etc.
(admitedly, i never run published modules for that exact same reason -- if it has no creative appeal, I am bored as a DM, so it has to be my own stuff or i'd rather not DM. So i can understand your frustration in that regard)
Not having read that campaign, I don't know if it's possible -- but is it possible to take what you have as insipiration and then just run with it in your own creative direction?
That way you'll still use what everyone helped support and you'll also get to flex more creativity in to it.
Or else run an alt game (it can still be d&d) with a campaign of your own design - for alternate sessions, or once a month etc.
(admitedly, i never run published modules for that exact same reason -- if it has no creative appeal, I am bored as a DM, so it has to be my own stuff or i'd rather not DM. So i can understand your frustration in that regard)
Quartz
Hero
The purpose of your play is to have fun. If you or your players are not having fun then you need to stop and reevaluate. You've taken the first step here. How abou you ask one of the players to host the session after next or something and play a one-off or something? 'Just as a change of pace, you know?'
bento
Explorer
Solution Taken
I didn't run our current campaign last night. Instead I ran a historical one-shot (historical horror) and everyone had a great time. A lot of the things that were missing in the prior weeks (joking, playing in character, engagement) was evident. I had one player who expressed that he did not enjoy this type of play, but went with the flow as he knew this was a one-time occurance.
So what about the future? The compromise I made for myself was to return to another D&D campaign (different world & characters played in 2007) for the next several (6?) months. I think everyone had a more fun time with this game as we spent about 20 minutes re-telling the stories (and howling with laughter) at the end of last night's session. While yes, it is still D&D, it will provide me with the level of creativity I think I need in the game. I told the other players that we can return to the current AP in a while. Everyone seemed to be fine with this.
For me? Although it will still be D&D, I think moving back to the "sandbox" will help me stay more engaged by fullfilling my creative drive.
Thanks everyone for your input!
I didn't run our current campaign last night. Instead I ran a historical one-shot (historical horror) and everyone had a great time. A lot of the things that were missing in the prior weeks (joking, playing in character, engagement) was evident. I had one player who expressed that he did not enjoy this type of play, but went with the flow as he knew this was a one-time occurance.
So what about the future? The compromise I made for myself was to return to another D&D campaign (different world & characters played in 2007) for the next several (6?) months. I think everyone had a more fun time with this game as we spent about 20 minutes re-telling the stories (and howling with laughter) at the end of last night's session. While yes, it is still D&D, it will provide me with the level of creativity I think I need in the game. I told the other players that we can return to the current AP in a while. Everyone seemed to be fine with this.
For me? Although it will still be D&D, I think moving back to the "sandbox" will help me stay more engaged by fullfilling my creative drive.
Thanks everyone for your input!
