D&D Insider Character Builder Open Beta live

[Sir Brennen]

I already deleted it due to how bad a "program" it is, and even worse attempt at a beta when you can barely test any of the higher level [meaning code wise not D&D wise per say] functions.

What constitutes a "higher level function" code wise that you can't test?

just like MMO beta test have the basic system and all the added things build onto it

This is junk. I acts just like an MMO character creator, and visualizer and linking it to Game Table will make it even more so.

So first it's not enough like an MMO character creation program and then it's too much like one? Make up your mind. (And how exactly is it like an MMO character creator and how should it be different? )

Another big problem is that when you have to type in your scores from rolling, these are the adjusted scores for race, so if you forget to adjust your scores for race you are screwed and lose those racial bonuses to scores.

Ummm... you don't type your scores in anywhere that I can see. You select Roll Dice, and in the center frame the Base Scores column populates, and the "score" column populates with the racial modifier added in. The character stat block on the left shows the score with adjustments. You change the base score by clicking the "+" and "-" buttons, and the race adj. keep up. Where do you type anything?

I tested this with an elf. Did you perhaps try different race which didn't add scores properly?

Also the damn news screen loading from internet explorer rather than loading the webpage directly into the program. Character Builder Message Window

Why not just a text file or XML file locally that gives you the latest news from your last update?

??? I see the news on the start page within the application.

This thing just keeps getting worse. Having to choose languages and such before you ever get to ability scores... WTF?

You don't have to do any such thing. Just click on the Ability Scores tab whenever you want. You can even do Ability Scores before race or class; selecting (or changing) race will then add the modifiers after you've chosen ability scores.

It also needs a way to turn splat books off. I mean if you don't own MotP then maybe you don't want that set of data to load to be in the way and only want the books you own to load. It will still be "official" even if you choose not to use MotP....

This I agree with. Filters would be nice.

If you think it's that buggy, JaN, there was a link provided to report bugs. Here's the quote with the link:

If you are not signed into to the Knowledge Base the little link may not work so you can follow this link for instructions on bug submissions

When reporting bugs, more detail, like what processes it doesn't clean up, would probably be helpful.

 

[justanobody]

So how do you really feel?

Best ever character generating software was a Basic program that made Birthright characters.

Aside from not liking Birthright and just dealing with the added stuff for them, the next best was Core Rules CD-ROM and it was only lacking a few things that proper foresight would have had fixed, like item creation where certain things couldn't be made as containers, etc and you had to make pairs of items to serve all functions and hope it wasn't a weapon that would require making two characters to make sure primary and offhand weapons were done correctly for a multi-function weapon like a sling staff, etc.

That is an easy fix I think someone told me that E-tools did do right because it output multiple configurations of weapons.

I think the character builder could have been done better if viewed as a stand alone program that was made for use by offline players, rather than building it FOR DDI use. There is just simply design flaws that should have been caught in early development that tells you "you need these options".

Those same things that have been missing from every inception of character builder that is sold, while oddly free character builders exist and do more and handle a lot of the problems the official ones miss.


But you were being rhetorical weren't you?

 

[firesnakearies]

I think you're being unreasonably critical of the builder, given that it's an unfinished demo, and that it works fantastically well for what it is able to do thus far. Many features are still going to be implemented, and it will no doubt continue to improve with later updates as well.

It certainly makes creating and editing 4E characters much easier than any other method I've seen.

Having some small complaints or pointing out a few areas where it needs work is one thing, but calling the utility "junk" is grossly unfair.

Most people seem to be pretty thrilled about it, even if they do have some criticisms.

 

[joethelawyer]

Best ever character generating software was a Basic program that made Birthright characters.

Believe it or not, you know what character generator I liked and still use to this day? That crappy little program that came in the back of the 3.0 PHB. "the dungeons and dragons character generator, demonstration version 1.2." It was simple, and it worked for the basic stuff that we needed it to do. We all still use it, as we play a 3.0 core game. It was better than the Code Monkey stuff, IMHO.

 

[Glyfair]

I think you're being unreasonably critical of the builder, given that it's an unfinished demo, and that it works fantastically well for what it is able to do thus far. Many features are still going to be implemented, and it will no doubt continue to improve with later updates as well.

I agree. This is wholesale better than any other initial release of a character generator for D&D so far. The only one that was better was the Core Rules 2.0 character generator, and that was far down the line in the development of that version.

PCGen had promise, but it completely lost usability when it went to java. It moved from a quick character generator, to a slow as molasses program that tried your patience.

As far I see being likely in the near future, the big failure of this version of the character generator is likely to be the inability to support 3rd party and mabye homebrew material. Given the relative lack of that so far, it may not be so glaring a problem with the chargen program (the reasons behind the lack are another matter that have little to do with the character generator).

Believe it or not, you know what character generator I liked and still use to this day? That crappy little program that came in the back of the 3.0 PHB. "the dungeons and dragons character generator, demonstration version 1.2." It was simple, and it worked for the basic stuff that we needed it to do. We all still use it, as we play a 3.0 core game. It was better than the Code Monkey stuff, IMHO.

The "Code Monkey stuff" was really the Fluid stuff that Code Monkey was hired to fix. Fluid and WotC leadership (or lack of it) was the failure of that program. Code Monkey seemed to have done the best they could have done with that. Code Monkey's big failure was not getting their "built from the ground up" out in time (probably for the same reason PCGen failed for me, trying to cater to the generalities instead of making something that works for the specific).

I agree if Etools/Mastertools had become an advanced version of that generator is would have been great. Unfortunately, we had announcements that the program wouldn't be a tool for using a laptop online or at the table, at the same time we saw previews of features that would only be used for those purposes. The left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing.

 

[justanobody]

Sorry for back to back posts, but don't know if this would fit in the other post id this one ends up right next to it.

What constitutes a "higher level function" code wise that you can't test?

Well it does involve the higher levels of a character like what happens when you choose a new power at a required swapping level? Does that work? You don't even have that range of levels to test.

The idea of a beta is to give everything you have to people to try to break the core of the software.

This "beta" is just like a toy preview to get people to buy in and not a proper beta test model. It isn't allowing for catching mistakes prior to adding new data such as the new books, etc. It is one of the worst beta test I have ever seen. I mean they are only having people test the free demo version that people get to play with, and not the full program, so those people testing the demo and using the demo will be hooked to buying into the service, but when they get the full package they will get broken software that was not properly tested.

So first it's not enough like an MMO character creation program and then it's too much like one? Make up your mind. (And how exactly is it like an MMO character creator and how should it be different? )

The testing method used as mentioned above is poor that is where the first MMO reference comes into play. I cannot say more than that in regards to MMOs and beta testing.

The fact it is working like an MMO means they should have looked at MMO beta testing to see what is needed and how to do it.

For example, many MMO or other video RPG type games you build your character via the "sheet" and it helps create the visual for you. You equip a sword, and your visual equips that sword.

They are striving for that connection, and have made the program for that, but it is one of the higher level code functions mentioned above that will be missed in testing since they are separate programs na the visualizer is far form done, which means they shoudl have been standalone and only need to connect them so far as storing the sheet on WotC servers, and let the visual designer pull from that account database should someone want to pick things appropriate for their character, and then "paint" them up in their visual design software to be slightly different form other players in the event of meeting someone with a character so close toy our own.

Ummm... you don't type your scores in anywhere that I can see. You select Roll Dice, and in the center frame the Base Scores column populates, and the "score" column populates with the racial modifier added in. The character stat block on the left shows the score with adjustments. You change the base score by clicking the "+" and "-" buttons, and the race adj. keep up. Where do you type anything?

I tested this with an elf. Did you perhaps try different race which didn't add scores properly?

Go into the character builder and take ANY character and get to the stats screen. There are white boxes there that show after intial character creation what your adjusted scores are after 8,10,10,10,10,10 for the point buy, unless you have set to an array method. You will note the added racialbonuses in those white squares. You can type in those squares to make whatever scores you want, but you must remember if you roll a 16, you must mentally add the bonus +2 to make it an 18 for your elf racial bonuses to stats.

??? I see the news on the start page within the application.

Why is it cached in internet explorer temporary internet files and added to the wizards.com folder in your browser history?

If you have something in internet explorer that doesn't allow 3rd party programs to access it for some reason:

1- you aren't going to get that news.
2- it should not be connecting to internet explorer or in some way be an extension for it to cause problems with your browser or be caught be some ad-aware or other program as a problematic BHO.

It just needs to pull the file via the software. This shows me that any actual update of data will also go through internet explorer, and this is a security risk for WotC, as it will leave these history links in IE that will allow anyone to just crawl through the pages to try to get updates where the program should establish a secure connection to the server without going through IE to do so.

You don't have to do any such thing. Just click on the Ability Scores tab whenever you want. You can even do Ability Scores before race or class; selecting (or changing) race will then add the modifiers after you've chosen ability scores.

It is poor design to have the languages selection first. Doesn't matter IF you can bypass them, but languages are one of the least important things needed to be recorded, while the ability scores will determine many more things and should be handled first so they are there and ready for things like feats, powers calculations, etc.

I can't even seem to recall where languages will affect anything else either calculation wise, or in game unless your DM forces the issue in some skill challenge, It is that minimal that the required variables should be set up first, before some optional use thing that doesn't affect any other thing of the character. Technically languages should come AFTER feat selection incase you choose additional langues so that you can select them all at once rather than having to go forward and back to try to choose languages and end up forgetting about your bonus language due to feats.

It is simply bad design and organization. Try making a flowchart of the process and see where language MUST be to get other things to work. It is not something that any other thing I have seen has a dependency on being done....

This I agree with. A filter would be nice.

If you think it's that buggy, JaN, there was a link provided to report bugs. Here's the quote with the link:


When reporting bugs, more detail, like what processes it doesn't clean up, would probably be helpful.

Another problem is the bug reporting system. The software should handle it all itself and is another bad design to require you to go to two websites in order to report a bug.

Microsoft, which Windows is required, has a bug reporting system that can allow for reports to be sent directly from the software, and even include the system specs and other running processes. This is what the software should do itself since it is built on that Windows system that helps with these things which is the .NET framework.

When you click report a bug, it should be a part of the program that opens up and send the bug to a server for the developers of the software to get, not to customer service to get, and hope they send it correctly to the developers. It should go directly to the technical department so there is less chance someone along the line will screw up delivering the report.

So there are many problems with DDI and WotC digital philosophies. They are still trying to do things the way they were done in the early 80's, and need to adapt much quickly to doing things the right way or at least on that is standard for todays market and technology.

I think you're being unreasonably critical of the builder, given that it's an unfinished demo,

That is the problem. Don't beta test a demo. Beta test the full product. Beta testing a demo only helps create that demo. Then you have to beta test the full product later anyway....

 

[joethelawyer]

I agree. This is wholesale better than any other initial release of a character generator for D&D so far. The only one that was better was the Core Rules 2.0 character generator, and that was far down the line in the development of that version.

what is this core rules 2.0 generator? is this the one that came in the back of the 3.0 phb?

 

[justanobody]

what is this core rules 2.0 generator? is this the one that came in the back of the 3.0 phb?

You are kidding right?

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Dungeons-Dragons-Core-Rules-Pc/dp/B00002SX0K]Amazon.com: Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Core Rules 2.0: staff: Video Games[/ame]

 

[Glyfair]

what is this core rules 2.0 generator? is this the one that came in the back of the 3.0 phb?

It was the final version of the 2E Core Rules program. Now, I never used it for 2E. I got it for the other tools.

However, it had text copies of almost all the 2E rulebooks (including almost all the splatbooks). It had 2 map programs. The character generator worked with all the splatbooks (or so I understand). It also didn't have to deal with working with dozens of incompatible 3rd party books.

 

[joethelawyer]

You are kidding right?

Amazon.com: Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Core Rules 2.0: staff: Video Games

It was the final version of the 2E Core Rules program. Now, I never used it for 2E. I got it for the other tools.

However, it had text copies of almost all the 2E rulebooks (including almost all the splatbooks). It had 2 map programs. The character generator worked with all the splatbooks (or so I understand). It also didn't have to deal with working with dozens of incompatible 3rd party books.

ahh. cool. i never bought that cd.