How can an enemy get past the Fighter?

[Rechan]

Combat Superiority states that when an enemy that incurs an OA is hit, that enemy stops moving.

So let's say you're a monster that the fighter has jumped up beside. You want to get over to the wizard and hit him.

If you use your move action to move towards the wizard, you'll be hit with the OA, and stop.

You can use your standard action as a move, and move to the wizard. But, if you do this, your end moves by the wizard, now the wizard will move away from you on his turn. The fighter, on his turn, will move up to you and attack you.

So if this dance continues, you may never get an attack on the wizard.

How do you, the monster, accomplish this when the fighter is on your ass?

 

[FireLance]

1. Charge - it's just a standard action, and the fighter can't OA you any more since he's already done it this turn.

2. Kill the fighter first. Alternatively, you or an ally can blind him, stun him, daze him, or otherwise prevent him from taking OAs, or restrain, immobilize or slow him so that he can't catch up to you in the next round.

EDIT: Oh, and one more:

3. Wait for the fighter to miss with his OA. Barring corner cases such as a fighter with a very high Wisdom modifier or an enemy with a very low AC, it should happen within a few rounds.

 

[DracoSuave]

You can use your standard action as a move, and move to the wizard.

I prefer to use the word 'Charge' when applying motion towards a wizard.

 

[cjais]

Use a move action to shift out of range of the fighter, then use your standard action to charge the wizard.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, since the fighter gets a combat challenge whack (if you're marked) if you shift ... it's almost as nasty a prospect as move + charge.

Depends on the fighter build, really ...
If the fighter has certain CC based feats (such as shield push), you could potentially not get a line of charge at the wizard at all.
Then again, the fighter could have heavy blade opportunity, and tide of iron you into the same position.

But the point in the thread has been made, methinks:
If a fighter demands attention, it's too much of a hassle to attack anyone but him/her.

 

[cjais]

Well, since the fighter gets a combat challenge whack (if you're marked) if you shift ... it's almost as nasty a prospect as move + charge.

Why does the DM care if the monster gets a little whack over the nose for shifting? The fighter player gets to feel bad-ass for actually using his class ability, and the wizard is about to get some excitement heading his way.

It's a monster, they're meant to die. Their job is to spark excitement and fear until they kick the bucket.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Ah, but the wizard isn't ... if the fighter has (for example) Shield Push feat.

let's say:
2-1
-X-
-F-
---
--W

If the monster tries to shift to 1, the Fighter swings before it gets to shift (since it's an interrupt).
The fighter pushes monster to 2.
The shift to 1 is now out of range and invalid.
The monster gets to go, "buh ... can't charge wizard"

 

[cjais]

Why would the monster shift to position "1"? It should shift directly away and to the right from the fighter, not back and stay in the same lane. Also, this is operating on the condition that fighter has that feat. If he's able to do that, the monster might as well just use the move action to walk, take the hit and stop, then use the standard action to charge (where upon the fighter will have used up his OA).

 

[Danceofmasks]

If the monster shifts directly to the right, the fighter does exactly the same thing, with exactly the same result.

If the monster uses move action to walk, the fighter takes an OA ... now, if the fighter has Heavy Blade Opportunity, and chooses to use Tide of Iron as his OA ...
The monster has to end its move action due to combat superiority.
The fighter pushes the monster 1 square, most likely directly north.
The fighter then shifts into the square the monster just vacated (if he wants to).

Monster gets to to "buh, can't charge wizard."

 

[cjais]

If the monster shifts directly to the right, the fighter does exactly the same thing, with exactly the same result.

Yeah, oops! I noticed too late that I misread your graph.

If the monster uses move action to walk, the fighter takes an OA ... now, if the fighter has Heavy Blade Opportunity, and chooses to use Tide of Iron as his OA ...
The monster has to end its move action due to combat superiority.
The fighter pushes the monster 1 square, most likely directly north.
The fighter then shifts into the square the monster just vacated (if he wants to).

Monster gets to to "buh, can't charge wizard."

All good points, but again, contingent on getting a specific feat, as well as using the right equipment. If you aren't using both a sword and shield, this won't work. Not to mention you have to be at least level 11 before you can take HBO.

My point is, while a sufficiently high level figher, with the right selection of feats and equipment can seriously mess with your monsters mobility (as they damn well should), that shouldn't stop you from trying to get by them completely. Hell, he might not even hit. And in the meantime, if that monster does manage to get into the wizard's face (which as you proved, is not assured), it'll just be more fun for everyone. The fighter will have done his best to stop it from happening, and the wizard will be in actual danger.

EDIT: Forgot to say that while Shield Push only works on the Combat Challenge attacks (if the monster shifts), HBO only works on OAs (if the monster walks). Thus, if the fighter wants to make sure that he can always push the monster if it tries something (and he hits), he needs both feats.