D&D 4E 4e is BROKEN if you ignore a major rule

[Dragonblade]

Also here is another kicker and perhaps a question for WotC:

Although the Orb of Inevitable Continuance can extend the Stun duration of a miss from Destructive Salutation, would it extend the Stun duration for ALL the enemies caught by Destructive Salutation? Or just one of them? If you really are worried about this, just rule as a DM that he only gets to add a second round to one of the enemies he missed. Not to all of them. That's how I would rule it.

Remember that burst powers require a separate attack roll against each enemy in the burst so some enemies will be under a Hit effect, and some will be under a Miss effect.

 

[Dragonblade]

Let me kick the dead horse one more time. Don't forget also that even though Destructive Salutation is a burst 3 power and thus may effect multiple enemies, the Save penalty you can apply with the Orb of Imposition class feature only applies to ONE of them.

 

[the Jester]

Interesting thread, but I think some of you are incorrect. Although Destructive Salutation is a power granted by the Blood Mage paragon path, its still a Wizard path, and as such saying its not a wizard power is splitting hairs. They absolutely should be able to use Destructive Salutation with their Orb of Imposition class ability.

I 100% disagree- it is not splitting hairs at all. Some paragon paths even have different power sources than the base class! Paragon path powers are, imho, distinctly different from the powers of the base class that leads to them.

I say that this position is not splitting hairs at all, and that blood magi should absolutely not be able to use Destructive Salutation with their Orb of Imposition class ability.

 

[James McMurray]

How did Orb of Imposition come into this? It has nothing to do with the situation in the OP, which has already been debunked several times over.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Amazing.

I can only find my DMG at the moment, so I can't double check, but if the power really lets you stun opponents on a miss, it's broken.

By the way, why is the PC trying to miss? What happens if he hits?

6d6 psychic damage and 10 ongoing plus stunned, save ends both. Instead of stunned ueoynt on a miss. Effectively the stunned effect is at least the same unless the target has some immunity or immediate reaction to shrug off save ends effects before their turn starts. As a player I don't know if (how many) monsters have such abilities.

I'd take the damage, and you are an orb user so you have better than the 50/50 for the effects to continue. I don't know why he's trying to miss either.

 

[James McMurray]

He's trying to miss because they didn't see the limit on daily item usage. If you can use 300 magic items to increase the duration to a guaranteed 300 rounds, that's far and away better than a simple save ends.

 

[DracoSuave]

I 100% disagree- it is not splitting hairs at all. Some paragon paths even have different power sources than the base class! Paragon path powers are, imho, distinctly different from the powers of the base class that leads to them.

I say that this position is not splitting hairs at all, and that blood magi should absolutely not be able to use Destructive Salutation with their Orb of Imposition class ability.

Wizard paragon class powers with, say, the Shadow power source are still wizard paragon class powers. They just aren't spells. Changing the power source doth not change the class.

 

[Dragonblade]

Wizard paragon class powers with, say, the Shadow power source are still wizard paragon class powers. They just aren't spells. Changing the power source doth not change the class.

Not to split hairs with you either, my good man , but from the sidebar on page 54 of the PHB. Any power with the Arcane power source is technically a "spell".

 

[Yair]

It's probably best to start the game at level 1 so you can better understand how it works. Even if you let the wizard continue with his cheese he couldn't touch orcus with a 100 mile pole. Level 22? i don't think he would even be able to hit orcus on a 20 (a roll of 20 is not a automatic hit).

Since he actually needs to miss, that won't be a problem...
And while I agree it's generally better to start at level 1, we've started there and have progressed (so far) to level 9. This is an epic excursion, to check out the system in the lofts.

It's a nice spell but it is a Daily and like most daily's would shift the tide of battle pretty well in the players favor.

I agree. I'd argue that this spell does, especially in combination with the OoIC.
The spell is too powerful.

I'm not sure why someone would want to miss since you make saves at the end of your turn so save ends is effectively at least the same as stunned until end of your next turn. Though I could totally be missing something.

yes:

I gather the intent to miss is due to the fact that the Orb can extend an "until the end of your next turn" effect but not a "save ends" effect.

He's trying to miss because they didn't see the limit on daily item usage. If you can use 300 magic items to increase the duration to a guaranteed 300 rounds, that's far and away better than a simple save ends.

Interesting thread, but I think some of you are incorrect. Although Destructive Salutation is a power granted by the Blood Mage paragon path, its still a Wizard path, and as such saying its not a wizard power is splitting hairs.

Hmph. Perhaps, but I'm not convinced. Is there official word on this subject? Any rule/FAQ saying Paragon Path/Epic/Whatever powers are to be counted as powers of the base class?

Here is the deal. The Orb of Imposition implement mastery ability has two features.

The PC used the Orb of Inescapable Continuance magic item, not the Orb or Imposition class ability.

But regardless, its a one shot deal. Even if he uses his level 21 Archmage ability to recover Destruction Salution (which is itself a once a day power!!), ... I suppose he could have multiples of the same orb, but again he still gets only 3 item dailies a day as an epic character. Either way he is going to be potentially blowing multiple dailies on a combo that while nice is nowhere near game breaking.

Yes. It's still rather powerful, however, too powerful I think to be considered "balanced". On both counts:
1) Orcus should not get to be stunned by the PC automatically. That's not fair, and not fun. The opposition should get a chance to avoid being stunned. Stunned is esseitnally a "get out of the fight" condition, which should always be avoidable.
3) The Orb's power is very powerful. Continuing essentially any effect as a minor action is .... well, just powerful.

The PC could spend the spell plus three orbs to get any monster - and probably many monsters - stunned for four rounds. That's one level 20 power and three minor actions [all dailys, yes], with essentially no chance of failure; too cheap, too cheap. Orcus shouldn't be stunned for four rounds so easily... Imagine how much damage a party could do to him in four rounds... Imagine what a normal level 20 daily power does, and some three Daily uses of magic items... No, the combo is still too powerful, even if it isn't outright "broken".

 

[Danceofmasks]

Interesting thread, but I think some of you are incorrect. Although Destructive Salutation is a power granted by the Blood Mage paragon path, its still a Wizard path, and as such saying its not a wizard power is splitting hairs. They absolutely should be able to use Destructive Salutation with their Orb of Imposition class ability. Even so, its not broken.

Is a Giantslayer's (Martial Power p62) powers Fighter powers or Ranger powers?
Prerequisite: Fighter or Ranger

They are neither. They are Giantslayer powers.