Light Sources

[CapnZapp]

Here's my house-rules on Light Sources.

Rationale: I originally started to tweak the light sources because I have found the Sunrod too powerful for its price, completely rendering lanterns and torches irrelevant. In other words, "dim light" almost never comes into play, making the Low-Light Vision racial benefit almost completely worthless. With this variant, dim light is back in the game.
Once I begun, I quickly found I wanted to add back in the Bull's-Eye lantern from 3rd edition (here called Storm Lantern), and various other less used light sources (including Moonrods - while I have made them up on the spot, I wouldn't be too surprised to learn they exist already)
As you can see, I have modified durations to mesh with the Encounter/Day cycle of 4E. Also in the spirit of 4E, I have done away with lamp oil: lanterns effectively never run out of oil. The wizard cantrip has been made tier-sensitive. Finally, the price of Lanterns were reduced to 4 gp so I could replace the sunrods of the Standard Adventurer's Kit without changing the price.

Light Source	Bright Light*	Dim Light*	Duration**	Price	Weight
Candles, pair	–		2 sq		Day		1 sp	–
Torches, 5	4 sq		8 sq		Day		1 sp	5 lbs.
Torch, 		4 sq		8 sq		Permanent	50 gp	1 lbs.
 Ever-Burning
Lamp		3 sq		6 sq		Permanent†	1 sp	1 lbs.
Lantern		6 sq		12 sq		Permanent†	4 gp	4 lbs.
Storm Lantern††	10 sq blast	20 sq blast	Permanent†	6 gp	5 lbs.
Campfire	6 sq		12 sq		Day		–	–
Light Cantrip	4/20/100 sq†††	–		Encounter	–	–
Sunrod		20 sq		–		Day		40 gp	1 lbs.
Moonrod††††	–		20 sq		Day		50 gp	1 lbs.

*) All light sources radiate in a close burst except where noted. Bright light replace dim light where overlapping.
**) Rain and strong winds extinguish Candles and Lamps. Heavy rains and gale winds extinguish Torches, Lanterns and Campfires. Other light sources are practically inextinguishable by weather conditions.
†) The game does not track oil usage, for simplicity.
††) Changing the direction of the blast can be done for free as part of any movement. Otherwise it is a minor action.
†††) Maximum range quintupled at each Tier: 20 squares at Paragon Tier, 100 squares at Epic Tier. Minimum range remains 4 squares.
††††) Unlike other light sources, a Moonrod creates light without a visible source. This means observers does not automatically see you if you’re carrying a lit Moonrod. You are still illuminated by the light, however.

Comments? Potential issues?

 

[Rechan]

I'm confused; you wanted to make other light sources compete with SUnrods, but Sunrods still produce 20 squares of light. What is supposed to compete with Sunrods here (Except the wizard cantrip)?

 

[CapnZapp]

I'm confused; you wanted to make other light sources compete with SUnrods, but Sunrods still produce 20 squares of light. What is supposed to compete with Sunrods here (Except the wizard cantrip)?

I expect Sunrods to be too expensive at first.

My goal is to make the group appreciate their convenience, rather than just taking them for granted. Which is easy if you've never had to have a single adventure with lanterns!

But perhaps you think Sunrods could be priced even higher, and PCs would still buy them (as soon as their economy catches up)..?

 

[Rechan]

But perhaps you think Sunrods could be priced even higher, and PCs would still buy them (as soon as their economy catches up)..?

IMHO I've never really payed attention to economic considerations. I just say 'pick whatever' to PCs when they create characters; mundane equipment really doesn't matter to me. So I do not see cost as a relevant solution.

And yes, as soon as PCs are 2nd level, they'll dump their cash on a sunrod. Or, they're a Warforged, 3rd level, and pick up a Delver's Light (Permanent sunrod centered on the WF).

There's also the matter that Sunrods beat everything else by being throwable light sources - chuck them into the dark room, rather than walk in.

My solution would be to either:
1) Reduce the Sunrod's duration to 2 Encounters/10 minutes worth of light (or an hour, if you don't like basing them off of encounters).
2) When activated, sunrods are immobile. (Someone suggested this solution; I liked it).

 

[CapnZapp]

IMHO I've never really payed attention to economic considerations. I just say 'pick whatever' to PCs when they create characters; mundane equipment really doesn't matter to me. So I do not see cost as a relevant solution.

And yes, as soon as PCs are 2nd level, they'll dump their cash on a sunrod. Or, they're a Warforged, 3rd level, and pick up a Delver's Light (Permanent sunrod centered on the WF).

There's also the matter that Sunrods beat everything else by being throwable light sources - chuck them into the dark room, rather than walk in.

Yep, sunrods are obviously included by the designers to make lighting issues as well as all other less convenient light sources completely irrelevant*. I can only guess they decided not having bright light all the time (except when a monster specifically creates darkness) wasn't "fun".
*) Possibly with the underwater scenario as an exception. It doesn't say outright that sunrods work without oxygen (though I guess it's a fairly common expectation) - in these cases, Everburning Torches will have to do...

My solution would be to either:
1) Reduce the Sunrod's duration to 2 Encounters/10 minutes worth of light (or an hour, if you don't like basing them off of encounters).
2) When activated, sunrods are immobile. (Someone suggested this solution; I liked it).

That could have been me...

Yep, I think I'll use solution 2, slightly modified (the delay is intended to allow the rod to be chucked into dark rooms):

Sunrod (40gp): One round after being activated*, a sunrod fills the area with a strong yellowish light, itself dissolving completely into intensely bright light motes. These motes nearly lack substance** and remain immobile throughout the sunrod's duration.
Moonrod (50gp): One round after being activated*, a moonrod fills the area with soft grayish light, itself dissolving completely into invisible dim light motes. These motes nearly lack substance** and remain immobile throughout the moonrod's duration.

I guess I could have reduced their duration too, but because they're immobile, they have a natural limitation on how many encounters they remain useful (ranging from one to several, depending on whether the party is offensive or defensive)...

*) At the start of your next round, to be specific
**) Any suggestion for a rule when somebody tries to wipe away (=extinguish) the "rod motes"...? I think "move action that succeeds automatically" is appropriate...


Thanks for helping out, I guess just increasing cost would have accomplished very little...

(Of course, once the characters are wealthy enough for gold pieces to lack meaning, they will of course have a bag of holding filled with sunrods, if they haven't found even more convenient light sources by then... but that's okay)

 

[Syrsuro]

Me like. Much.

I have been bothered by the light level drop-off issue for some time (especially due to its effect on rogues who want dim light for hiding and low-light vision characters whose powers become pointless). And likewise, I have never cared for the sunrod's huge radius and cheap cost.

Although most of the above fixes are relatively obvious solutions (the idea of dim light circles surrounding the bright light provided by torches, etc. is not new and has been discussed repeatedly) the changes to Sunrod (and the creation of the Moonrod) are new ideas to me and ones I like.

I did decide to make one small change, however. The Sunrod and Moonrod provide some illumination instantly (Sunrod as torch, Moonrod burst 4 dim light) - they simply take one round to dissolve into motes. This still allows the players to toss the sunrod while also letting them use it to see on their turn when plunged into darkness.

As for 'wiping them away' - I'm not sure I am going to allow that. I see the motes as constantly in motion throughout the area (I added a note to the sunrod that the illuminated area is completely without shadows) and thus even if you elimated them from a small region more would rapidly move in to fill the gap. Darkness spells and abilities would negate them, but not physical action. Likewise, although a closed door would block them within the area, opening that door would allow them to flood into the room, making it brighly lit as well.

Perhaps a strong wind effect might clear an area temporarily.

Carl

 

[CapnZapp]

Thanks Carl/Syrsuro!

The delay was meant merely to give characters time to throw the rod, so its origin square could be "somewhere else" even when you can't move the lighted rod. After thinking a bit about this, how about:
"It's a minor action to activate the rod. It's a move action to throw it, if desired. The rod takes effect (and becomes immovable) one move action after being activated, allowing a character to light it, move or throw, then attack assisted by its light."

But I guess "the rod starts to give light / turns into motes at the end of your turn" is easier, less fussy, more standard, and all around "good enough".

The wiping away thing was because otherwise I feel it's far too powerful for a rod to provide guaranteed light that is effectively inextinguishable by most mundane means.

My adding "motes" to the description should be interpreted as a fluff thing, helping to explain the effects. I never intended this to extend the rod's functionality. Specifically, the light from a sun- or moonrod still radiates from an origin square. I should probably clarify the motes doesn't fill up the entire area, they stay in a small sphere wherever the rod was at the time. The light doesn't travel around corners: you still need line of sight to light up a specific square.

My only reason for having the motes in the first place was because I wanted the light source to have the "immovable" restriction. Turning the rod into hotly glowing embers that can't be moved (my first attempt at a solution) created more problems than it solved (the heat could be abused, fire restance could allow movement of the light, as a physical substance it could be stored or teleported, etc etc).

"Magical motes" have far fewer issues.