Nerfing the Archer Ranger a little

[Orcus Porkus]

Observation: The ranger combines the ability of dealing the most damage in the game with the best ability to stay out of danger. This combination is anti-fun, and thus needs to be fixed.

Solution: "When shifting while wielding a ranged weapon that can't also be used as a melee weapon, the move provokes opportunity attacks"

 

[cmbarona]

I'm pretty sure this belongs in the house rules forum.

But anyway, I'm curious: will this apply to enemies as well? What about one-handed ranged weapons and, say, Rogues who hold a dagger in one hand and a hand crossbow in the other? What about arcane classes who wield implements? I think answering some of those questions might better answer whether this is a good idea.

That, of course, and playtesting.

 

[Orcus Porkus]

bummer, I posted it in the wrong forum by accident. Moderator, please move it, thanks.

 

[cmbarona]

You also might want to consider some particular aspect of the Ranger that makes them so powerful in your opinion. Is it the high weapon damage? Perhaps then you can remove or reduce their Hunter's Quarry. Is it the ability to keep things at a distance? Perhaps you should consider requiring their Hunter's Quarry to be within a particular range. But I wonder if you've ended up nerfing ranged weapons with this rule than a particular user of those weapons.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

I think the problem is that they get to use a d12 weapon (the greatbow from AV) at range with a variety of powers that often give multiple attacks. The two-blade ranger can compete with that on the damage front (twin waraxes, again from AV), but doesn't have the advantage of range.

That said, I'm not sure that this house rule would really solve anything - an archer ranger who regularly runs into this problem has one of two real problems: 1) he's not taking advantage of his ability to attack from range enough, or 2) the defender isn't defending very well.

Also, it would completely invalidate Nimble Strike, whose main purpose is to allow the ranger to shift away and attack with a ranged weapon without taking an OA.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Observation: The ranger combines the ability of dealing the most damage in the game with the best ability to stay out of danger. This combination is anti-fun, and thus needs to be fixed.

Just go get him. Unless you keep fighting in corridors, I don't see what is preventing you from attacking the archer ranger. In most case, unless you keep fighting in very open terrain, he is no harder to reach than the wizard or the warlock.

And your solution is disconnected from the problem you are observing. If the monster has reached him to the point where he threatens the ranger, then he is no longer out of danger, eh?

Considering the damage; I'd ban the Great Bow. It's a bit much for a build that already has so much going for it.

 

[C_M2008]

I think taking away the AV weapons would probably be a better solution.

Nerfing something for doing what it's supposed to is a bad idea.

If the ranger is going through many combats unscathed then it's the DMs fault for poor encounter building/running.

 

[Lakoda]

I don't think this is a system problem as much as a tactical problem from the DM. Use encounters that will put the ranged characters in harms way more often or in a tight area that will remove there ability to attack from far away, or have the enemies surround the players. If the player's use range to their advantage, so should some monsters.

Yes, you should not kill them all the time but you have to make it difficult for them. Just because the Fighter is a defender does not be you have to attack him. Enemies do not always come from the same side, reducing the effectiveness of the Fighter to tank all of the enemies at once. Not all monsters are dump, they understand that attacking the fighter would be easier (well, probably not, but they would not be hindered from the mark) but they also may know that dropping the strikers/controllers/leaders first is ideal to their survival. Otherwise, you combat is just like the Gauntlet video games were wave after wave of monster rushed whatever is closest to them.

 

[Herschel]

I agree that disallowing the Great Bow or Adventurer's Vault weapons would probably be the best way to go if you are determined to nerf them. But as Lakoda said, there are tactical ways to deal with them too.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

I will take my Dwarf Tempest vs Your Elf Archer Ranger for damage. At least at 1st level (I havent played him yet)

Dwarf Tempest Dual Strike - 1d10+4 + 1d10+4 = 2d10+8 = 10-28 = 38 = avg 19

Elf Archer Ranger Twin Strike - 1d12+1d12+1d6 = 2d12+1d6 = 3-30 = 33 = 16.5

Guess I wouldnt be wanted in your compaign huh