Nerfing the Archer Ranger a little

[Moon-Lancer]

I agree that disallowing the Great Bow or Adventurer's Vault weapons would probably be the best way to go if you are determined to nerf them. But as Lakoda said, there are tactical ways to deal with them too.

its not really a good idea because the strikers are supposed to have high damage. if you take away the great bow are you going to take away all the other high damage weapons and double weapons?

Mithreinmaethor how are you getting +4 damage after your dice damage?http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/mithreinmaethor.html

 

[Caliban]

Mithreinmaethor how are you getting +4 damage after your dice damage?

Presumably he is a dwarf using a 1d10 axe or hammer with the off-hand property (probably a double axe), and has the Dwarven Weapon Training feat.

Tempest fighters get +2 damage when attacking with a weapon with the off-hand property, and dwarven weapon training gives +2 damage with any axe or hammer.

Even if your power doesn't add in your stat modifier, you still get bonuses like that.

It should be noted that the ranger spends another feat on weapon focus, his average damage goes up to 18.5.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

its not really a good idea because the strikers are supposed to have high damage. if you take away the great bow are you going to take away all the other high damage weapons and double weapons?

Taking away double weapons isn't an half bad idea...

Concerning the Great Bow, the longbow already has increased to D10 compared to the D8 of the crossbow. How much more edge to we need to give to the archer? If the longbow was still D8 I wouldn't have a problem with the greatbow doing D10.

But as is, I have a problem with the Ranger using D12 when the warlock can't increase his own base dice and when he is already trailing a bit in damage even if the ranger uses the standard longbow.

Mithreinmaethor how are you getting +4 damage after your dice damage?http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/mithreinmaethor.html

Tempest bonus (+2 with off-hand weapon) plus dwarven weapon feat.

AV introduced an annoying power creep, IMO. Now you get player using ungainly doubleaxe as if they were two handaxes. The image is disturbing enough as it is, I don't see why it also has to be rewarded mechanically so indecently.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

*edit* never mind this post

 

[Lord Sessadore]

I was thinking the same, but it should be noted that greatbow proficiency is a feat. That said, a dwarf tempest would need to be at least level 2 to get double axe and DWT, as far as I see.

Also, one important overlook - the tempest has to be in melee range to do any good. The archer can nail you from up to 100 ft. away with no penalties - I think that's part of the complaint here.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That said, a dwarf tempest would need to be at least level 2 to get double axe and DWT, as far as I see.

Proficiency in axes is a benefit of the DWT feat.

-Hyp.

 

[Starglim]

Observation: The ranger combines the ability of dealing the most damage in the game with the best ability to stay out of danger. This combination is anti-fun, and thus needs to be fixed.

'Twin Strike
Remove "or Ranged" '

I don't think Rapid Shot as an encounter power (Two-Fanged Strike and higher level equivalents) is a problem, just the ability to do it round after round.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Taking away double weapons isn't an half bad idea...

I agree

Concerning the Great Bow, the longbow already has increased to D10 compared to the D8 of the crossbow. How much more edge to we need to give to the archer? If the longbow was still D8 I wouldn't have a problem with the greatbow doing D10.

The reason is IF you use AV, everyone gets a kind of upgrade. its not a balanced book. so my point is simply if you use that book, great bow is fine, but the great bow is better if its only the ranger that's using that book. that's my point.

AV introduced an annoying power creep, IMO. Now you get player using ungainly doubleaxe as if they were two handaxes. The image is disturbing enough as it is, I don't see why it also has to be rewarded mechanically so indecently.

I agree

 

[Moon-Lancer]

*edit* i diden't like what I wrote, so i changed it*

At first i was annoyed when elves did not get feat that lets them get a +2 damage with bows but then I realized that elf archers were probably good enough.

I don't think they are broken but they are strong.

its possible that because of archery sucking in previous games they wanted to make sure archery was really good in this one. I think they did a good job with that at least.

 

[evilbob]

Dwarf Tempest Dual Strike - 1d10+4 + 1d10+4 = 2d10+8 = 10-28 = 38 = avg 19

Elf Archer Ranger Twin Strike - 1d12+1d12+1d6 = 2d12+1d6 = 3-30 = 33 = 16.5

What about this idea for a level 1 character:

Bugbear ruthless ruffian rogue (large mace [versatile], 18 str, 18 dex, WF mace) - 1d10 + 10 = 15.5
Add combat advantage - 1d10 + 10 + 2d6 = 22.5
or, take backstabber instead of weapon focus (mace) - 1d10 + 9 + 2d8 = 23.5

And this is for a melee at-will power (disheartening strike). The best thing is the average might be lower, but the minimum damage is still 11 (or 13) compared to 3 - and that's worth a lot.

Ranged, you can't get quite as good, but the minimum is still high and it's always better with combat advantage:
Ranged (large x 2 shuriken) - 1d8 + 8 = 12.5
with CA (and backstabber) - 1d8 + 8 + 2d8 = 21.5

Granted, you can't rely on CA quite like you can Hunter's Quarry, but on the other hand even without flanking buddies there are many rogue powers that are designed to keep giving you CA over and over.