warpriest questions

[brehobit]

OK, some questions about how people read the warpriest powers.

Warpriest challenge let's you mark an opponent. "The next time that enemy shifts or attacks a creature other than you, you can make an attack of opportunity."
#1 this would be in addition to a fighter's combat challenge right? Both could happen at from the same action of the marked target?
#2 "The next time" implies only once. After the marked target does one of those things once, the next time no opp. attack right?
#2a Assuming 2 is correct, hitting again with an at-will attack would reset the "next time" clause?
#3 A basic attack is an at-will attack yes?
#3a If a is true, than the opportunity attack itself, assuming it hits, could enable the mark.
#4 as it is an opp. attack, combat superiority kicks in and could stop a shift.

Also, it seems pretty clear that an area attack that hits the warpriest and someone else provokes from this power...

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Also, Battle Pyres seems, well, oddly written. If I read it RAW, it seems that every time you get a hit with the attack you can make a secondary attack. So if you hit the boss and 7 other guys, you do "hit boss, give him on going damage and make a sec. attack. Then for each of the 7 you hit you can make another secondary attack". I suspect that's not the intent, but I'm not sure what is. I guess if you get one or more hits you may take a single secondary attack?

--
Mark Brehob
brehob@eecs.umich.edu

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

#1 this would be in addition to a fighter's combat challenge right? Both could happen at from the same action of the marked target?

Only one mark per target. If the enemy was marked by the fighter and now the warpriest marks him, it would remove the fighter mark.

If the character is both a warpriest and a fighter and therefore has two different type of marks, I'd ask him to choose which is in effect.

#2 "The next time" implies only once. After the marked target does one of those things once, the next time no opp. attack right?

You can only make one opportunity attack per enemy's turn so that is a given.

#2a Assuming 2 is correct, hitting again with an at-will attack would reset the "next time" clause?

You read to much in a 'next time'. The target is marked for the encounter unless superseded or unless you makr someone else with this feature.

So yeah, next time he shifts. And the next after that. And the next. No need to 'reset'.

#3 A basic attack is an at-will attack yes?

No. A basic attack is just that; a STR attack vs AC with your weapon and nothing more.

It's what you do when you charge, for example.

#3a If a is true, than the opportunity attack itself, assuming it hits, could enable the mark.

3 wasn't true

#4 as it is an opp. attack, combat superiority kicks in and could stop a shift.

If you are also a fighter, than yes, I guess.

A reward for having inherited an encounter and daily power that requires Wisdom and an implement...

Also, it seems pretty clear that an area attack that hits the warpriest and someone else provokes from this power...

I'd say not. If you are included in the blast, you are included as a target. It shouldn't trigger the mark.

I agree that by the text you can split hair and claim otherwise, but that's how every mark work and I wouldn't let someone rule lawyer his way out of it. As a DM I'd just shurgged it off.

Also, Battle Pyres seems, well, oddly written. If I read it RAW, it seems that every time you get a hit with the attack you can make a secondary attack. So if you hit the boss and 7 other guys, you do "hit boss, give him on going damage and make a sec. attack. Then for each of the 7 you hit you can make another secondary attack". I suspect that's not the intent, but I'm not sure what is. I guess if you get one or more hits you may take a single secondary attack?

It's fairly clear.

You get a blast 5 that does ongoing radiant (save ends).

As a secondary you can immediatelt do 5D10 + WIS against 1 creature taking ongoing radiant from that attack within 5 square.

On subsequent round, you can take a standard action to repeat that 5D10+WIS against a target suffering ongoing radiant from that initial blast.

You can keep it up as long as someone hasn't succeeded his saving throw and is still taking damage from the initial blast.

 

[1of3]

#1 this would be in addition to a fighter's combat challenge right? Both could happen at from the same action of the marked target?

Yes, that works fine. For a Fighter (MC Cleric) / Warpriest.

Fighter's Combat Challenge doesn't care what kind of mark the target has, as long it was marked by the fighter himself. So the mark from Warpriest's Challenge triggers the Combat Challenge attack as well.

#2a Assuming 2 is correct, hitting again with an at-will attack would reset the "next time" clause?

Yes, you are basically superseding your own mark.

#3 A basic attack is an at-will attack yes?
#3a If a is true, than the opportunity attack itself, assuming it hits, could enable the mark.

It's an at-will power by PHB 287. So yes, RAW it does trigger the mark.

#4 as it is an opp. attack, combat superiority kicks in and could stop a shift.

Yes. Also you get your Wisdom bonus to attack.

Also, it seems pretty clear that an area attack that hits the warpriest and someone else provokes from this power...

That would be unlike all other marks work, but RAW you are correct.

(All other marks, I remember, read "does not includes you as a target". This one reads "attacks a creature other than you".)

 

[Fede]

Also, Battle Pyres seems, well, oddly written. If I read it RAW, it seems that every time you get a hit with the attack you can make a secondary attack. So if you hit the boss and 7 other guys, you do "hit boss, give him on going damage and make a sec. attack. Then for each of the 7 you hit you can make another secondary attack". I suspect that's not the intent, but I'm not sure what is. I guess if you get one or more hits you may take a single secondary attack?

The way i read it RAW, you make an attack against every enemy in burst 5. Every enemy hit takes damage, ongoing damage and triggers the "make a secondary attack" part of the hit line. Then, every time you sustain it you make a single secondary attack against one enemy that still has ongoing damage.

Example:
warpriest has 4 orcs in burst 5 radius. He uses Battle pyres. He rolls four attacks, hitting orc1, orc2 and orc3 and missing orc4.

He rolls 2d8+wis radiant damage for orcs number 1, 2 and 3. Also, this 3 orcs receive ongoing radiant damage.
The "make a secondary attack" part of the hit line is triggered 3 times, so he can make 3 secondary attacks to the 3 orcs that were hit.
As i read it, he can make one attack against each of the orcs, or two attacks against one and one against another, or all three attacks against the same orc.
In his subsequent rounds, as long as at least one of the orcs is still taking ongoing radiant damage, he can make a single secondary attack against one of those orcs that still haven't saved against ongoing damage.

This is my reading from a strictly RAW point of view, and it looks overpowered to me. I'd think that the secondary attack should only be triggered once the round the power is used. I would've written it this way:

Hit: 2d8 + Wisdom modifier damage, and ongoing 5 radiant damage (save ends).
Effect: if at least one enemy is hit, make a secondary attack
Secondary Target: One creature taking ongoing radiant
damage within 5 squares of you
Secondary Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 5d10 + Wisdom modifier damage.
Sustain Standard: You can make the secondary attack in
subsequent rounds as long as at least one of your primary
targets is taking ongoing radiant damage.

 

[morikal]

You read to much in a 'next time'. The target is marked for the encounter unless superseded or unless you makr someone else with this feature.

So yeah, next time he shifts. And the next after that. And the next. No need to 'reset'.

I don't think he read to much into it... seems pretty clear they are 2 separate effects.
1) You mark the enemy until the end of the encounter
2) Additionally, the next time that enemy does certain things, you get an OA against it.

Once you've taken your OA, that effect of warpriest's challenge (or whatever its called, don't have my book with me) is over. If you hit the enemy again with an at-will attack (either by having heavy blade opportunity and using an at-will in the OA you just made, or by making a separate attack), you can choose whether to supercede the mark, and once again the "next time" condition kicks in.

 

[Nifft]

The secret to Warpriest is you start with a TWF Ranger (MC Cleric), and take Heavy Blade Opportunity, so your opportunity attack is Twin Strike (and is an at-will melee power, allowing you to reset your Mark).

Cheers, -- N

 

[brehobit]

The secret to Warpriest is you start with a TWF Ranger (MC Cleric), and take Heavy Blade Opportunity, so your opportunity attack is Twin Strike (and is an at-will melee power, allowing you to reset your Mark).

Cheers, -- N

I was going fighter doing the same thing. Fighter bonuses to opp. attacks (bonus to hit, stops movement) makes it scary good. Could take twin strike (dual strike?) as a fighter I guess and get all that goodness...

Mark

 

[Nifft]

I was going fighter doing the same thing. Fighter bonuses to opp. attacks (bonus to hit, stops movement) makes it scary good. Could take twin strike (dual strike?) as a fighter I guess and get all that goodness...

Nah, as a Fighter your Wisdom bonus to opportunity attacks is just about as good as Twin Strike, and the benefits you get from a shield are strong.

I recall seeing a very good build on the WotC char opt board which did exactly as you describe: Fighter + Warpriest = scary control and damage.

Cheers, -- N