Post play examples of your skill challenges!

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

This would probably not get you another cup of tea at grandma's house, but very good nonetheless. Two questions: what skills were used, and did you, or the players, suggest them?

One theme I'm noticing from the examples so far, and this may just be an artifact of how they're written, is that the DM is suggesting skills rather than the players. This is contrary to the example in the DMG, but actually tends to be how challenges play out at my table as well. Is this a common theme for other people?

Edit: And by the way Kzach I sympathise. I don't quite seem to have got my head around skill challenges yet either. This thread is certainly helping.

The suggestions so far seemed to assume that the DM should plan the skill challenge just like any other encounter, and thus also pick the skills. The question is how the PCs figure out which skills to use, and this can feel a little artificial (the DM tells it directly) or "mother-may-I"-like.

I think the best approach for the DM is to make a plan for the skills he finds likely to use - and that should make sense in the context. But just like a DM has to adapt his monsters tactics to the players reactions and actions, a DM has to improvise if the players pick an approach he didn't predict. But many times, I think there will be a good overlap between player ideas and DM ideas.

 

[Mallus]

...what skills were used...

Diplomacy, Bluff, Insight, History, and Heal. We also got some bonuses for the mage's use of Tenser's Floating Disk and Prestidigitation.

...and did you, or the players, suggest them?

The DM announced that he was going to use a Skill Challenge to resolve our 'cunning plan' then listed the primary skills (Bluff, Diplomacy, and Insight). The mage's player suggested using History to relate the city's historical scandals and the and the fighter's player suggested using Heal to describe, in correct anatomical detail, the Magistrate's fictitious crimes.

Also, we explicitly set the stakes: if we win, the riot occurs --and it's generally peaceful--, the Magistrate is delayed, and we aren't executed the next day by his men. If we lost something 'bad' would have occurred: the riot wouldn't have happened, or it would have been violent, or we would have been arrested the next day, etc.

Since this is our playtest 4e campaign, we've been running the Skill Challenges 'open' until we get the hang off the system (and whatever changes we decide to make to it).

 

[LostSoul]

Here was the first really good one. Spoilers for Keep on the Shadowfell:

[sblock]Situation: Half the PCs were in the Keep, at the mercy of Kalarel.

The Keep:
Kalarel: Submit to the will of Orcus, or die!

Kalarel was trying to break them, to curse them to do the will of Orcus. I started off by using torture, but the PCs were resisting. The Warlock feigned an interest in Orcus to keep the hot pokers away from his flesh, so Kalarel dragged them all to the upper temple. (Room 18)

On the way there, the Fighter broke his bonds.

We're in the blood-soaked altar room. Time for a sacrifice! I started dragging the PCs onto the altar to see what would happen - what they would do to get out of that situation.

The Warlord, a new PC - replacing the Cleric - said that he had created a small sympathetic doll that would take the curse instead of him. Arcana roll (Hard) = success! He undergoes a ritual - soaked in the blood of a sacrificed pig - but suffers no ill effect.

The Warlock is next. He says he already believes in the power of Orcus, and he didn't need the blood ritual. "Good, then," Kalarel responds, "you can have the fire!" Bones burning with a sickly green flame scorched his flesh.

Yes, this was a failure.

Then we turn to the Fighter. Who, remember, had broken his bonds. He's thrown on the altar. "You are the most stubborn," Kalarel says. "You will taste the knife of Orcus!" He draws a knife, preparing to plunge it into the Fighter's chest.

The Warlord responds with a Scorching Burst right on the altar. "The holy flames of Orcus!" he says. "He is already blessed!"

Yeah. Kalarel is not buying it either. "Betrayal!" he shouts. The Warlord runs.

Now the Fighter makes his move. He flips out and goes all bad ass. He crushes the throat of the vampire spawn next to him. He punches the underpriest in the face and breaks his nose. He kicks Kalarel in the gut and winds him.

We're at 7 successes and 2 failures. What's the Warlock going to do?

It's down to the Warlock's roll; success or failure, it's going to be resolved here. Will they be swarmed by the Kalarel and his bitches, or will they break out?

The Warlock makes his move. He calls a flaming claw from Hell to grab the underpriest and throw him down the well. The underpriest tries to dodge, then to wiggle his way free, but he's stuck. He gets tossed down the well. All they can hear is a loud splash.

The PCs decide to beat feet and get out of there before Kalarel can rally his troops.[/sblock]

This is what I think you do:

1. Get a good juicy conflict going. If the PCs don't care about the outcome or the NPCs don't care about the outcome, don't roll.

2. Play out the NPCs. Have them take steps to accomplish their goal. Since this is a new sub-system, players are going to need the occasional prod: "The (bad guy) does (this). Are you just going to take it?" The players need to make all the rolls, so mess with them if they don't.

(Playing out the NPCs includes stuff like: "The river rages and smashes your boat with malevolent force, tipping it over" or "The hot sun shows no remorse. It beats down on your thirst-ravaged bodies and you collapse on the ground, exhausted." At which point you might have to prod: "Unless you do something about it.")

3. Roll the dice to resolve each each action. Good, general results to use with a failure are penalties/increased DCs to future rolls, blocking out skill use ("You've pissed him off, Diplomacy won't work"), and draining Healing Surges. The opposite are good for success (bonuses/reduced DCs, enablind skill checks, and regaining Healing Surges).

4. Stop rolling when the conflict comes to an end, and make sure that this particular conflict ends when the number of successes or failures have been reached. It could spawn another skill challenge right after the first; that's good.

 

[wedgeski]

Having just sat down to design another SC for my group, I think I can put into words what mystifies me the most: pro-active vs. reactive challenges.

In the classic Duke/diplomacy example, the Duke is a passive participant in the challenge, and the PC's are pro-active. He listens to what the PC's have to say, and responds appropriately. This, as far as I'm concerned, is a piece of cake to design. List your Primary skills, choose your complexity, think of some synnergies, and bam, off you go.

But take the urban chase scenario, or the one I'm currently trying to write, the follow-someone-through-the-underdark scenario. In this challenge, your 'opponent' (the city/ underdark, the person you're following) is actively obstructing your progress through the challenge, via terrain, ambush, trap, or other nefarious means.

Is it then up to the DM to come at the PC's with "This happens, what do you do?"... i.e. a somewhat scripted encounter?

Or should the PC's be given leeway to contribute to the narrative, for example, "Can I use Dungeoneering to predict the layout of these tunnels and find a shortcut?"?

It seems to me that in a reactive challenge like this, there's a danger that inexperienced players will kill the challenge stone dead, and a good DM will need to prepare, or come up with on the fly, a sequence of 'skill challenge attacks' against which they have to defend. In other words, does this type of Skill Challenge naturally tend towards a scripted encounter, which doesn't honestly seem to be the intent of the Skill Challenge system at all.

Eh. Still unsure.

 

[Nebulous]

I'm also in the camp of "not totally digging skill challenges." I've run some simple ones, but for the most part, it seems to me they can be accomplished by roleplaying and the DM making some stuff up on the fly, without rolling dice at all. Although i sometimes read examples here and think, damn, now that's how to run a good skill challenge. So i probably just need more practice, but i'm hesitant to practice at the expense of screwing up the encounter.

 

[shilsen]

Having just sat down to design another SC for my group, I think I can put into words what mystifies me the most: pro-active vs. reactive challenges.

...

Is it then up to the DM to come at the PC's with "This happens, what do you do?"... i.e. a somewhat scripted encounter?

Or should the PC's be given leeway to contribute to the narrative, for example, "Can I use Dungeoneering to predict the layout of these tunnels and find a shortcut?"?

Both. There's no reason why the DM can't have an idea for something scripted and also let players contribute to the narrative. In my experience as both player and DM, a mix of the two is usually best.

It seems to me that in a reactive challenge like this, there's a danger that inexperienced players will kill the challenge stone dead, and a good DM will need to prepare, or come up with on the fly, a sequence of 'skill challenge attacks' against which they have to defend. In other words, does this type of Skill Challenge naturally tend towards a scripted encounter, which doesn't honestly seem to be the intent of the Skill Challenge system at all.

I don't think it naturally tends towards a scripted encounter, but having players who aren't very proactive can lead to it. That said, I think skill challenges (like almost any part of the game) get better as players have more experience with them, and as long as you encourage players to think creatively (and if needed, give hints or suggestions) they will eventually start doing so. Especially if one does something creative and makes the skill challenge more enjoyable.

 

[Mallus]

Is it then up to the DM to come at the PC's with "This happens, what do you do?"... i.e. a somewhat scripted encounter?

Yes.

Or should the PC's be given leeway to contribute to the narrative, for example, "Can I use Dungeoneering to predict the layout of these tunnels and find a shortcut?"?

Also yes.

Skill Challenges are interesting when they evolve dynamically, with the players and DM playing off each other. The DM should narrate the action in in such a way that suggests which skills to use next at the same time remaining open to something out of left field that the players introduce.

...and a good DM will need to prepare, or come up with on the fly, a sequence of 'skill challenge attacks' against which they have to defend.

Absolutely. And the DM will have to counter the players skill uses and the direction that they take the action in the scene. This goes a long way towards mitigating the sense that a Skill Challenge is nothing more than tallying successes/failures.

 

[Mallus]

I've run some simple ones, but for the most part, it seems to me they can be accomplished by roleplaying and the DM making some stuff up on the fly, without rolling dice at all.

This is true. If you're in the market for it, Skill Challenges offer a framework and some mechanical support for 'winging it' ie resolving important non-combat encounters.

 

[Rel]

I can't recall who it was here at ENW that posed it this way but I ran the first session of my new 4e campaign on Monday night and I explained it to the players like this: "Skill challenges are where you trick me into letting you use your best skills to solve the problem at hand by coming up with creative ways to apply them."

Admittedly I did have to turn down a couple of rather weak suggestions but overall it got their minds working to think outside the box a bit.

In practice the challenge went like this:

The bridge they were on collapsed (thanks to some help by the bad guys) and they plunged a pretty long distance into a raging river below. First I had them make two Athletics or Acrobatics rolls (whichever they wanted) with failure of either resulting in the loss of a Healing Surge.

Then they had to try and stay afloat in the rapids as they were swept rapidly downstream. One thing I made sure of here was to explain that this was not a "round by round" thing. Each check represented several minutes of them being swept through this canyon. Most simply made Athletics checks but one or two also made some Nature rolls to try and "read the river".

The Paladin nearly drowned due to his armor check penalty in plate so he finally cut it away (this was a skill roll based on his basic melee attack with a dagger to cut the straps). He had an easier time swimming after that.

The Cleric managed some Perception rolls to locate the others and found an NPC struggling not to get bitten by their pack-lizard. She managed to calm it down (Nature) help him free the laquered wooden urn from its back to use as a floatation device (Strength check) and eventually was able to use the lizard as a sort of slow mount in the water (Nature again).

Meanwhile the Warlock and Ranger were doing relatively well but the accumulated failures in the challenge triggered a combat. I'd decided that multiple failures signified that they were all skinned up from banging off of rocks and the blood in the water drew the Dire Pirhannas. These were a Needlefang Drake swarm that I'd reskinned and their "Drag Down" power seemed perfect for the occasion. This nearly killed both the Ranger and Warlock (Ranger was 1 death save away from dead) but the Paladin and Cleric got there at the buzzer thanks to some more Athletics (now unencumbered by armor) checks by the Paladin and Nature rolls by the Cleric to ride the lizard.

That concluded the challenge and they washed up in some shallows very far from where they started, the whole thing having take a half hour or so.

 

[FunkBGR]

I don't recall all the details, but I ran one recently that went something like this:

The party meets at the Golden Cockatrice and is hired by a woman named Eudora Desne. She wants to visit these ancient ruins up in the Cairn Hills, where supposedly some orcs have been hanging out. She has a crude map. She previously hired another group, but they never came back.

(If this sounds familiar to anyone, it should be - straight rip / combination from a boxed set)

Anyway, the PC's start heading off, and I started a Skill Challenge to represent their wilderness travel.

Questions came up like, "Are there any landmarks on the map that we can follow or see?" - Perception check: Success - My response, "You can see off in the distance a river snakes it's down from the hills."

Unfortunately I don't remember a lot of the details, but by creative use of skills, the PC's were able to navigate the wilderness, and learn some things about the ruins ahead of time. Things like History - "What sort of ruins could these be? Were they known for building in specific spots?"

I dunno, maybe RefinedBean will pop in and explain more of how it worked out. It might have sucked from a player end of things, as far as I know.

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Also, I found this while reading some of the EnWorld blogs - looks like it might be helpful: Dungeon's Master — A D&D Resource Blog For DMs & Players