Piracy

[grickherder]

Being an old school gamer, I thought 3rd edition was totally the wrong way for D&D to go and didn't really play D&D from about a year after it came out (gave it a try). I assumed in advance that 4th ed would be more of the same. I downloaded a torrent for the core books and was utterly wowed. So I bought them. And miniatures. And multiple dungeon tile sets. And source books and so on.

I've noticed a recent trend from content producers to give away larger and larger portions of their works on the net. There are lots of TV shows that you can watch entire episodes or even entire previous seasons online. They're wising up.

A preview chapter and a table of contents would not have gotten me back into D&D and would have gotten no money from me in product purchases. Seeing the entire books got WotC my money.

But some people would call me a dirty dirty thief. Somehow I'll surrive.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

This has been covered several times. I am sure you think you are right, but this is simply not the case.

Shipping and printing of D&D books are only a small percentage of the cost of making the book. If you sell pdf's cheaply, you risk losing money because people buy the pdf instead of the book.

It should be cheaper... As a comparison to the book market:

less than the Hardcover, not less than the pocket book.

 

[Shadowsong666]

Icky situation.

Under traditional "fair use" rights? No.

Under the current interpretation of copyright law favored by most media cartels? Yes. Your housemate's "license" is non-transferable unless explicitly stated so, they say. You should have bought your own copy, they say.

Somehow, I don't think WotC is losing sleep over it, though. I log into DDI and let my roomie browse with no personal moral qualms whatsoever.

Well, i well lend my books to anyone i know and who wants to read it. , i even lend my audio cds and burned mp3s to people. I don't know how many hours i spend in copy centers to get all the rpg stuff i needed as a teenager. Times change - sharing doesn't.

But hey, i am in germany. And doing all that (not pirating - i mean lending, sharing) is ok so far. May it stay so til i am old and grumpy. If not - well - time to leave the place because i do not want live in a state which tries to enforce on me which information i may share and which i may not.

"Daddy, can you read me a story?"
"Sure. Which one do you like?"
"The ones you read to my brother yesterday."
"Sorry, not tonight. I need to register a copy for you. Maybe tommorrow."

Whats next? Closing down the libraries?
Men - i should charge my gaming group for having the game experience they get. I mean - i provide 6-10 hours of fun with stories out of my head. How the hell do i got to the idea of sharing my IP for nothing?

This has been covered several times. I am sure you think you are right, but this is simply not the case.

Shipping and printing of D&D books are only a small percentage of the cost of making the book. If you sell pdf's cheaply, you risk losing money because people buy the pdf instead of the book.

Same argument is valid with audio cds too and look how much it brought the industry in doing so...
Sorry, but i think the industry should adapt to things that are and things that will come in the future. If they are not capable to do that there are people who will lead the way and tell them how its done. Napster to iTunes... which still isn't cheap and still the wrong people get the most out of it imho.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I think I need to weigh in again...

If you think a law is stupid then argue for it to be changed...I have no problme with open discussion on laws...


However breaking said law is going over the line.

What if I said I felt laws on Drivers Licences were stupid...why should I pay the state to have a peice of paper that says I can drive...as long as I drive safely shouldn't I be allowed to drive without one??? Now what if I let my licence laps and drove without it...could I then claim the state is wrong for having me arrested?? Afterall I feel it is a stupid law...Why should I follow a stupid law?

What if the law in quastion was about woman...what if I was of the belife they were property to be traded...then woman rights laws are stupid to me...

What if I feel the laws against owning fully autmatic weapons is stupid...
What if I feel the laws against me shooting people who tresspass on my land are stupid...

Now lets bring this back full circle...What if I feel IP and copyright laws are stupid...does that give me the right to break them??? If so where do we draw the line? Whitch laws are optional??

edit: at this time over 150 people on this public form admit to breaking the law and doing something they know to be illigal

 

[Xyxox]

I think I need to weigh in again...

If you think a law is stupid then argue for it to be changed...I have no problme with open discussion on laws...


However breaking said law is going over the line.

What if I said I felt laws on Drivers Licences were stupid...why should I pay the state to have a peice of paper that says I can drive...as long as I drive safely shouldn't I be allowed to drive without one??? Now what if I let my licence laps and drove without it...could I then claim the state is wrong for having me arrested?? Afterall I feel it is a stupid law...Why should I follow a stupid law?

What if the law in quastion was about woman...what if I was of the belife they were property to be traded...then woman rights laws are stupid to me...

What if I feel the laws against owning fully autmatic weapons is stupid...
What if I feel the laws against me shooting people who tresspass on my land are stupid...

Now lets bring this back full circle...What if I feel IP and copyright laws are stupid...does that give me the right to break them??? If so where do we draw the line? Whitch laws are optional??

edit: at this time over 150 people on this public form admit to breaking the law and doing something they know to be illigal

I purchased dozens upon dozens of 2E PDFs. I wish I had pirated copies before doing so because had I known how poor the quality of about 25% were, I would have never purchased them and would have instead scanned them myself since I own a hard copy of literally every 2E product produced. As it is, I have scanned those products that the PDF I purchased was of inferior quality to have an electronic copy I can actually use. Plus, I scanned my copy of the Encyclopedia Magica: Volume 2 as WotC never did that one.

Because of my experiences with the 2E scans, I am reluctant to purchase any 3E or 4E PDFs as the cost is much higher and I have no clue what the quality is.

 

[Shadowsong666]

a law does not have to be right to be one.
not following a law has not to be right as well.
but both can be.

death by law is wrong. why?
lets take it the capitalist way, will we?
because it costs more. thats why some states think about getting it removed, right? not because of morality - no - money.
Sick joke this world is... but hey, thats getting political. sorry.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Now I'm wondering whats to stop WoTC from getting a subpenoia to find out who voted that they downloaded the stuff illegally and bringing them up on charges.

 

[Xyxox]

Now I'm wondering whats to stop WoTC from getting a subpenoia to find out who voted that they downloaded the stuff illegally and bringing them up on charges.

Because internet polls have no validity as there is no way to insure people voted accruately and no way to calculate a margin of error, thus it wiould be a waste of time as bnothing could actually be proved by the data.

 

[Asmor]

Now I'm wondering whats to stop WoTC from getting a subpenoia to find out who voted that they downloaded the stuff illegally and bringing them up on charges.

Because internet polls have no validity as there is no way to insure people voted accruately and no way to calculate a margin of error, thus it wiould be a waste of time as bnothing could actually be proved by the data.

It also would not be financially worth their time to go after individual downloaders, and it would also not be worth the huge PR nightmare.

Of course, if they ever did sue me, well, I'd stop downloading their stuff, delete everything I have, stop running the game for my friends (who would not otherwise buy books), stop producing free software which supports their game, stop subscribing to the DDI, and of course stop buying anything D&D, Magic, Avalon Hill, or anything else under the WotC/Hasbro umbrella.

 

[Oldtimer]

Whatever you call it, illegally downloading stuff that's protected and is meant to be sold flies in the face of millennia of legal, moral, and ethical precedents

This is so wrong that I have to object strongly. Copyright laws are less than three hundred years old, so there are no millennia of precedents here.

I do agree that copyright proponents try to adhere copyright to the old ideas of "thou shalt not steal", by using words like "theft" and "intellectual property", but the fact remains that works protected by copyright are not property and copying can never be theft.

I note that the creators of the US Constitution found themselves motivated to specifically point out that Congress can issue laws to limit peoples' ability to copy something they have purchased. I don't see anything in the Constitution pointing out that Congress can issue laws against theft. I would seem that copyright was not so firmly entrenched in those days.

I realize that we look at this issue very differently, John, but maybe this gives you some idea of where I'm coming from in this. I simply do not recognize copyright as a fundamental law in the way that laws against theft and murder are. If you read up on why the Statute of Anne were issued in 1710, you might come to the same conclusion.