Converting prehistoric creatures

[demiurge1138]

Yeah, I think we could just adjust the snake's ability scores upwards a tad without using up feat slots.

 

[Cleon]

Yeah, I think we could just adjust the snake's ability scores upwards a tad without using up feat slots.

Well in that case we should be aiming for feats that give it a greater range of options.

Hmm, Combat Reflexes is a good feat for a monster with a 15' reach, especially if it's a solo monster facing multiple foes. How about swapping that for Cleave?

If you like Iron Will, what about giving it Epic Will instead and giving it a different non-Epic feat. Blind-Fight strikes me as a good idea, since it may be facing darkness or invisibility using foes and the ability to "feel" the location of its opponents is thematically fitting for a snake.

That would leave it with one Epic-level feat slot to fill. I still don't much care for Epic Prowess or Epic Toughness, since they don't give a return we can't achieve by tweaking its Str or Con up one point. Maybe another save-boost with Epic Reflexes or Epic Fortitude? There are not that many useful epic feats is eligible for, we could give it Epic Skill Focus (hide) but we'd have to give it 20 ranks in Hide for it to be eligible which would only leave it 8 ranks for its other skills. Although it would make it an impressively sneaky creature for its size and CR. (20ranks+3dex+2feat+3feat+10epic+4racial-12size = +30 Hide!)

That would give it:

Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Endurance, Power Attack, Skill Focus (hide), Stealthy

Epic Feats: Epic Will, plus one more (Prow/Tough/Ref/Fort/Skill?)

EDIT: After mulling it over, giving it Epic Hide is starting to grow on me. It's a ridiculously oversized constrictor snake, so it probably lives by lying motionless until some elephant-sized animal wanders close enough for it to grab hold of. Therefore it needs to be stealthy enough that its prey doesn't notice a hundred foot long snake. A typical Huge herbivore has a Spot bonus of around +10-12 (e.g. Elephant, Triceratops), so it would need a Hide of +20 or more to have a good (75%+) chance to escape notice.

We could drop the Skill Focus (hide) and Stealthy and still leave it +25 Hide, then use those two feats for something else - Skill Focus (Spot) and Weapon Focus (bite), for example, would end up giving it more useful skill mods.

Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Endurance, Power Attack, Skill Focus (spot), Weapon Focus (bite)

Epic Feats: Epic Will, Epic Skill Focus (hide)

 

[freyar]

That sounds reasonable to me.

 

[demiurge1138]

I like Combat Reflexes and Epic Hide, but we gave it Cleave because (through example, such as the purple worm) swallowing whole counts as "dropping" an opponent to give another free attack. Let's eliminate, say, Alertness or Endurance and give it back Cleave.

 

[freyar]

Drop Endurance.

 

[Cleon]

Drop Endurance.

Sounds good to me, so that makes:

Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Cleave, Power Attack, Skill Focus (spot), Weapon Focus (bite)

Epic Feats: Epic Will, Epic Skill Focus (hide)

What's up next then, skills? Of the 28 skill points I'd put 20 ranks in Hide and 4 each in Listen and Spot. The defaults of Climb and Swim should be good enough, considering its Strength and racial bonuses:

Climb 0ranks+11Str+8racial = +19
Hide 20ranks+3Dex+10feat+4racial-12size = +25
Listen 4ranks+1Wis+2feat+4racial = +11
Spot 4ranks+1Wis+2feat+3feat+4racial = +14
Swim 0ranks+11Str+8racial = +19

 

[demiurge1138]

Looks pretty good to me.

 

[Cleon]

Looks pretty good to me.

In that case we could just tidy up the advancement, give it a length & weight, and call it done. 26-33 HD (Gargantuan); 34-75 HD (Colossal) would fit the usual "triple max HD" scheme, but 75 HD seems too high for a 'realistic' pseudo-prehistoric beastie. My gut's telling me to go double max HD instead, giving us:

Advancement: 26-33 HD (Gargantuan); 34-50 HD (Colossal)

As for length & weight. If a titanoboa is 40' long and 2500 pounds, a double-size titanoboa would be 80' and 20000 pounds. That's still within the standard weight range for a Huge creature (4000-32000 pounds) but, as previously mentioned, snakes in 3E D&D are probably underweight for their size category, just as Oozes are usually overweight, so I see nothing wrong with that.

Now, are we going to tweak its Str and/or Con up a bit or just leave it as is? I am fine with leaving it at Str 33 and Con 17 from a straight size-increase of a giant constrictor.

To recap the changes so far relative to Shade's rough stats for the snake in post #402:

Snake, Giant Titanoboa
Armor Class: 21 (–4 size, +3 Dex, +12 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 18
Attack: Bite +26 melee (2d6+16)
Full Attack: Bite +26 melee (2d6+16)
Special Attacks: Constrict 2d6+16, improved grab, swallow whole
Saves: Fort +17, Ref +17, Will +13
Skills: Climb +19, Hide +25, Listen +11, Spot +14, Swim +19
Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Cleave, Power Attack, Skill Focus (spot), Weapon Focus (bite)
Epic Feats: Epic Will, Epic Skill Focus (hide)

Swallow Whole (Ex): A giant titanoboa can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of a smaller size than itself by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d8+11 points of crushing damage plus 8 points of acid damage per round from the snake’s gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 16). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. A Gargantuan snake’s interior can hold 2 Large, 8 Medium, 32 Small, 128 Tiny, or 512 Diminutive or smaller opponents.
[I've modified the gizzard damage and AC to account for the changes in Str and natural armour.]

 

[Shade]

Wow...I missed a day with a sick kid, and you guys got busy!

I'm not convinced we need to make it a "giant" version. It may not be as realistic being more powerful than a T-Rex, but the D&D T-Rex is rather underpowered to begin with. The size clearly puts it in the Gargantuan category, which allows it to fill a nice niche.

I'll bow to the majority, though, if the consensus is that it's true size is too small.

Updated.

Welcome back, Cleon.

 

[Cleon]

Wow...I missed a day with a sick kid, and you guys got busy!

I'm not convinced we need to make it a "giant" version. It may not be as realistic being more powerful than a T-Rex, but the D&D T-Rex is rather underpowered to begin with. The size clearly puts it in the Gargantuan category, which allows it to fill a nice niche.

I'll bow to the majority, though, if the consensus is that it's true size is too small.

Updated.

Welcome back, Cleon.

Glad to be back Shade.

Anyhows, I think you really have to make it a giant 80-100' version of the Titanoboa. It's got over 50% more HD than a Purple Worm, which is 80' long in the SRD.

The T rex isn't underpowered compared to regular animals (e.g. comparing it to the SRD's elephant), it's just that we expect it to go toe-to-toe with the more fantastic D&D monsters, and its stats are "realistic" as opposed to "super-beast".

Maybe we should come up with Dire versions of the dinosaurs, so they can win back some respect.