The 3.5 renaissance!

[thedungeondelver]

Yep, even OSRIC has caused a "renaissance" for 1E. Anyone aware of how many new products have been made for 1E in the last few years? A lot. Which has been bad for me, since I love modules, and there are great modules out for 1E, 3E, 4E and C&C, so I whimper every month in frustration since I cannot afford to buy all of them.

I know of a few pretty good free ones available.

If you can pardon the one-man-band level of editing acumen.

 

[Mallus]

I'm still really looking forward to the fantasy sourcebook for M&M2e. I'm interested in Golarion, the Pathfinder setting. But the actual Pathfinder rules... not so much.

 

[caudor]

I used to play 1e (missed 2e...) a LOT. We loved it. But it's arbitrary and bizarre mechanics annoy me no end now. How I love the unified d20 era of 3.x! I can't ever see myself going back to 1e.

But 3.x, with it's unstable game balance and it's unnecessary complexity grew unacceptable as well. How I love this simplified, unified era of 4e! I can't ever see myself going back to 3e.

IMO, every version of D&D is clearly superior to the one before it. Why go back?

PS

I'm in the same boat. Before 4e, I loved 3e. Before 3e, I loved 2e. This goes all the way back to 1979. D&D is a life-long hobby for me.

I want to take advantage of the 3.5 renaissance--I really do. Cheap source books, taking advantage of what I already own, plus the new stuff coming. Doing so would seem so logical.

Yet, I can't. After being presented the coolness of 4e, I simply can't enjoy the older versions like I used to. Illogical perhaps, but true.

I will most certainly be converting older adventures to the new system. But that's not the same as actually playing an older version.

 

[Kerrick]

Well, my stuff is strickly fan-based stuff that I do for my own enjoyment. (I've simply found that others share my passion for creating homebrewed worlds, rules, etc.) I don't have any intention of slapping the OGL on to anything I'm doing for Kulan; however, I could do it for another world concept I've been mulling over.

Read your OGL sometime. It has to be attached to ANY material using the SRD, whether or not you intend for it to be open. Stuff posted on forums is exempt, but I'm fairly sure stuff on websites falls under that aegis.

I think you are recalling wrong. Pretty sure Pathfinder was announced in March, whereas 4e was released in June. Meaning Jason had been working on it for a while on it before that. It also means the decision to stick was made before seeing 4e, and before knowing anything about the GSL.

That's true, more or less. 4E was previewed at DDXP in (edit: er, Feb 08), and WotC had a conference call with a select group of publishers (Paizo being one of them) regarding the GSL around the same time. The plan was that said publishers would sign an NDA and get a copy for review and pre-signing. When WotC continually dragged their feet and failed to produce anything, Paizo said "screw this" and announced Pathfinder in March. Given that Jason had been using a lot of the material as house rules already, it wouldn't have taken him long to write it up for a formal playtest.

We do agree, though, that they made a good decision. I would go further in saying that WotC made a bad one by delaying the GSL. I think the suits want to keep the IP firmly in their own hands, but the GSL serves them much better than the OGL - 3PPs can produce material that forces players to buy core books, which funnels money into WotC's pockets, but the 3PPs can't take the core rules and make their own spinoffs. With a business model like that, it makes me wonder why they took so long to get it out.

 

[dmccoy1693]

I think you are recalling wrong. Pretty sure Pathfinder was announced in March, whereas 4e was released in June. Meaning Jason had been working on it for a while on it before that. It also means the decision to stick was made before seeing 4e, and before knowing anything about the GSL.

The decision that the 2nd Pathfinder Adventure Path was made when their deadline passed without the GSL and SRD being released. This deadline was well before 4E was released.

I am certain Paizo was hoping to be in on 4E at release. WotC's feet dragging sunk that very early on. I would bet they were planning to support 3.5 in some fashion, as long as it was profitable. However, their comments made it clear they were considering moving Pathfinder to 4E. Circumstances meant they didn't even need to see 4E before they needed to make a long term decision.

3rd Adventure Path.

Timeline as I remember it:
Oct 07 - WotC missed their first selfmade deadline of having material to 3PPs. Enough details have come out that players are getting nervous. Buhlman begins work on Pathfinder Alpha as a side project on his own time.
Early Jan 08 - WotC made a confrence call to the 3pps giving them details of the new license and a 5K upfront fee allowing companies to publish at GenCon. 3PPs sent in NDAs but no license was sent out. Paizo starts a thread asking their customers which edition they expect to be using at the end of 08.
Late Jan 08 - WotC announces that the new license will be called the GSL and will be incompatable with the OGL. Paizo pushes off deadline as to when they must make their final decision as to what system Second Darkness will be.
Feb 08 - D&DXP happens. World sees exactly how different 4E is. Paizo gets solid intel that 4E is not to their tastes.
March 08 - 6-ish weeks after Paizo's "we must make a decision by this date" deadline, there is still no license or rules. Wizards moved publication date to Oct 1, 08, well past the expected launch date of the Second Darkness AP. Forum thread has roughly 50% of Paizo's existing customers expecting to still be playing 3E/3.5 at the end of 08, 30% saying they expect to be playing 4E and 20% saying they'll go where Paizo goes. Paizo decides to move forward with Pathfinder RPG Alpha.
Early June 08 - 4E is released.
Late June 08 - SRD/License is released.

 

[Knightfall]

Read your OGL sometime. It has to be attached to ANY material using the SRD, whether or not you intend for it to be open. Stuff posted on forums is exempt, but I'm fairly sure stuff on websites falls under that aegis.

So you're saying that any v.3.5 fan site with homebrewed races, classes, rules, and the like must have the OGL attached. Huh?

That doesn't sound like what I've heard from WotC in the past regarding 3rd Edition fan sites. The OGL was designed for publishers not for fans. Sure, if I was reproducing the OGL on my website (in whole or in part) then I'd need a copy attached to the site but I'm not, so I don't think I need it.

Of course, I've never truly understood every aspect of the OGL, so I could be wrong.

If I had to make my Walk the Road wiki OGL compliant then I'd just delete the damn thing! It wouldn't be worth my time or effort.

 

[Mark]

So you're saying that any v.3.5 fan site with homebrewed races, classes, rules, and the like must have the OGL attached. Huh?

That doesn't sound like what I've heard from WotC in the past regarding 3rd Edition fan sites. The OGL was designed for publishers not for fans. Sure, if I was reproducing the OGL on my website (in whole or in part) then I'd need a copy attached to the site but I'm not, so I don't think I need it.

Of course, I've never truly understood every aspect of the OGL, so I could be wrong.

If I had to make my Walk the Road wiki OGL compliant then I'd just delete the damn thing! It wouldn't be worth my time or effort.

I believe the only separate document created by WotC regarding OGC use was essentially an addendum in the form of the conversion policy but that had more to do with utilizing older D&D IP in conjunction with the OGL.

As to fan websites, I do not believe that the OGL makes any exception for them in regard to use of OGC and the OGL. However, it is certainly simple enough to add an OGL with a section 15 to any website that simply has the line "[website name here] is copyright [person name here] [year(s)]" then after the "END OF LICENSE" add an OGC declaration (100% except for PI if you wish to be open or more restrictive, perhaps just to specific mechanics, if you wish to hold more control on the material) then a PI (Product Identity) declaration with a list of specific terms that you consider trademark or worth holding back from OGC, like the name of the campaign world, your own name, original names of classes or races or items, etc. It's not that difficult, really.

 

[carmachu]

I wonder why people are so fanatical about sticking to one edition. I'm talking about 90% of you here. I'll play basic, 1st AD&D, 2nd AD&D, 3.0, 3.5, 4e....I seriously don't give a damn. Why people are so attracted to mechanics and not the adventure and fun of sitting around the table....Bargle's my mind.

Because I'm an adult now and time is limited. Business, family, responsibilities.

Back in teh 80's and 90's I played alot of different games, pretty much anything was out there.

Now time and resources are limted. SO....I play the one I like.

 

[Jason Bulmahn]

3rd Adventure Path.

Timeline as I remember it:
Oct 07 - WotC missed their first selfmade deadline of having material to 3PPs. Enough details have come out that players are getting nervous. Buhlman begins work on Pathfinder Alpha as a side project on his own time.
Early Jan 08 - WotC made a confrence call to the 3pps giving them details of the new license and a 5K upfront fee allowing companies to publish at GenCon. 3PPs sent in NDAs but no license was sent out. Paizo starts a thread asking their customers which edition they expect to be using at the end of 08.
Late Jan 08 - WotC announces that the new license will be called the GSL and will be incompatable with the OGL. Paizo pushes off deadline as to when they must make their final decision as to what system Second Darkness will be.
Feb 08 - D&DXP happens. World sees exactly how different 4E is. Paizo gets solid intel that 4E is not to their tastes.
March 08 - 6-ish weeks after Paizo's "we must make a decision by this date" deadline, there is still no license or rules. Wizards moved publication date to Oct 1, 08, well past the expected launch date of the Second Darkness AP. Forum thread has roughly 50% of Paizo's existing customers expecting to still be playing 3E/3.5 at the end of 08, 30% saying they expect to be playing 4E and 20% saying they'll go where Paizo goes. Paizo decides to move forward with Pathfinder RPG Alpha.
Early June 08 - 4E is released.
Late June 08 - SRD/License is released.

This is relatively accurate. Except for the spelling of my poor, mangled last name.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

((No worries.. it happens all the time. Mr. Mona started this fine tradition by misspelling my name back in Polyhedron))

 

[Korgoth]

Well, thanks to Dancey and the boys and the OGL, all of us "pre-4thers" can hang out in our anarcho-syndicalist communes playing the D&D that we want.

It's liberating, really. I was interested in 4E because I was interested, but ultimately it doesn't change my own D&D experiences one bit (except insofar as I played it for a time).

In 5th edition, it could be the case that the only races are Tarrasque and Titan, the only classes are Kaiju and Dr. Manhattan and goblins have 40,000 hit points each. I'll still be here planning out Swords & Sorcery adventures, and 3 Hit Die Fighting Men ("Swordsmen") will still be spelunking into my dusty and curious dungeons.

And thanks to the internet, you can find and hang out with like-minded enthusiasts, get cheap printed materials and waste time discussing the mind of Gygax on internet message boards.

Old School is definitely having a renaissance. I don't know if it's technically too soon for 3.5 to have a "renaissance"... but whatever it is, you boys go ahead and have it!