New Forgotten Realms designed by FR haters?

[Shemeska]

That massive leap in logic doesn't take into consideration things like the portion of the fanbase who was complaining, the then current state of FR product sales, and dozens of other variables that are far more likely to have impacted the decision to alter FR rather than pure, unreasoned, hatred

And in this instance I'm rather inclined to agree with you. I truly, utterly doubt that anyone on the 4e design team hates FR. The accusation strikes me as silly.

The WotC design team couldn't have changed their plans in light of the negative reaction from FR fans to 4e FR before they'd actually released to books and gotten the reaction that they ultimately did. Given that they appear to have then taken a step back and reevaluated what they were going to do to 4e Eberron, it looks like they might have learned a lesson from what happened with FR. And if that's the case, it's a smart move on their part (though it still remains to be seen, given that the Eberron cosmology is still getting the full 4e treatment).

That said, I'd also suspect that some of the massive changes to 4e FR were also influenced by a very large lack of experience by most members of the 4e design team when it comes to FR. Without a ton of experience, they probably weren't as invested in the setting as it was prior to 4e compared to some other writers, and as a result they might have been more inclined to change things and put their own mark on the setting. I don't agree in any way whatsoever with what they ultimately did, but I can understand perhaps where they might be coming from.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Bother eberron fans and FR fans had an outcry at fast folwarding the setting 100years and basically, for all intents and purpose, wreck the setting for the fans.

Nope.

The original plan was to advance Eberron by two years. Not 100. Not 10.

Two.

It was never going to be as earth-shaking as the FR changes were. There were going to be a few political changes, maybe a few border shifts, and the introduction of a few new factions.

Fans objected primarily for two reasons:

1) It was said a while back that Eberron would never advance with any sort of "metaplot," and they wanted to keep it where it was, and

2) Some heard about the changes to FR and assumed the plan was as drastic, even though James Wyatt had said, in public, that it was not.

So yes, WotC did change their mind about advancing Eberron. But no, the situation was never even remotely analogous to the FR situation.

 

[jdrakeh]

That said, I'd also suspect that some of the massive changes to 4e FR were also influenced by a very large lack of experience by most members of the 4e design team when it comes to FR.

I'm not too quick to equate fan lurve to experience or suggest that fan lurve qualifies one to write actual game supplements — have you ever read FR fan fic?

 

[D'karr]

But here's a thought again: if your going to sell to folks, your customers, wouldnt you want to gauge a bit what they DO want or liked in a setting, before changing? It doesnt necessarily mean you will listen or even impliment any of the changes, but I wouldnt ignore my target audience either.... from a business POV.

After seeing some of the "conversations" on these and other boards, I'm not sure that I wouldn't flat out ignore "THAT" target audience.

Since you can't please everyone, it seems reasonable that I would "sell" to the biggest target audience, not the ones that scream the loudest.

 

[Uzzy]

The WotC design team couldn't have changed their plans in light of the negative reaction from FR fans to 4e FR before they'd actually released to books and gotten the reaction that they ultimately did.

Grand History of the Realms, where the main changes between pre-Spellplague Realms and post can be found, was released on 18th September, 2007. The FRCG was released 19th August 2008. Was that not enough time to change things?

That said, I'd also suspect that some of the massive changes to 4e FR were also influenced by a very large lack of experience by most members of the 4e design team when it comes to FR. Without a ton of experience, they probably weren't as invested in the setting as it was prior to 4e compared to some other writers, and as a result they might have been more inclined to change things and put their own mark on the setting. I don't agree in any way whatsoever with what they ultimately did, but I can understand perhaps where they might be coming from.

Here we go. Various podcasts with the chief designers for the post-Spellplague Realms mentioned that they hadn't ran a game of D&D in the Realms for over two years. Perhaps if Greenwood, Baker (that's Rich, not Keith), Boyd and Schend were the designers, things would have been different.

 

[jdrakeh]

Since you can't please everyone, it seems reasonable that I would "sell" to the biggest target audience, not the ones that scream the loudest.

This.

 

[Shemeska]

I'm not too quick to equate fan lurve to experience or suggest that fan lurve qualifies one to write actual game supplements — have you ever read FR fan fic?

I'm not sure where "fan lurve" comes into anything I said really. *shrug* When I said experience, that's what I meant, aka having written for the setting before, preferably multiple times, and by extension having a firm knowledge of the setting material and its history.

And no, I can't really say that I've read FR fanfic.

 

[Shemeska]

Grand History of the Realms, where the main changes between pre-Spellplague Realms and post, was released on 18th September, 2007. The FRCG was released 19th August 2008. Was that not enough time to change things?

Hmm. You've got a point there. I'd forgotten about the material that WotC tacked on to the last pages of GHotR. They probably could have changed things at that point, because yeah, the reaction wasn't good as I recall. I don't know by what point they'd written and locked into stone what ultimately happened to 4e FR.

They had to have been aware of how the 4e material added to GHotR was received, but they stuck to their decision regardless. Unless the design team were to comment, I can't do much more than speculate as to why they did what they did.

 

[drothgery]

Nope.

The original plan was to advance Eberron by two years. Not 100. Not 10.

Two.

That's what I thought. Thanks, Ari.

 

[jdrakeh]

They had to have been aware of how the 4e material added to GHotR was received, but they stuck to their decision regardless. Unless the design team were to comment, I can't do much more than speculate as to why they did what they did.

But. . . but. . . the GHotR was received very positively, wasn't it? I mean, with very few exceptions. Why would WotC want to change that?