PHB2 sold out!

[smug]

In my group I have introduced 9 new players into 4e. Not one of them will ever buy any of the books. But they are all playing, enjoying and are generally enthused about the game. I have the books and thats enough for everyone.

However, they have all bought their own dice and figures.

It seems strange that people can so vehemently desire the failure of 4e, or can read into any piece of information in a way that twists the meaning into some warped support that their desire of 4e's doom, is an immenent reality.

All that negativity and negative emotions isn't going to change the reality, whatever that may be. All it will cause is stoach ulcers and cancer. Put down your cross and let it be.

I guess that groups like yours are what Pramas is talking about. Unless they buy a lot of minis, that's a lot of fun you guys are getting out of the game without actually putting much of the folding stuff in the WotC pocket. Which is fine, of course -- there's no reason why people should pay for things they don't feel they need -- but it does show that "enjoying the game" and "commercial success" aren't always the same thing.

 

[D'karr]

All that negativity and negative emotions isn't going to change the reality, whatever that may be. All it will cause is stomach ulcers.

LOL... At times one can only hope... LOL

 

[ExploderWizard]

When I think of 4E sales and WOTC I can't help thinking about the Borg.

It isn't enough for the books to sell well, all must be assimilated. This doesn't mean that I think WOTC shouldn't defend its IP from piracy. The way the pdf move was implemented shows that piracy was not the only, or even the primary concern. The first and foremost goal was to make sure there was no legally available WOTC electronic content on the market outside of the DDI.

There are no more 3E and earlier edition products still in production or print and thus no physical product that pdfs of these titles compete with.

Success in the the free marketplace means identifying what your customers want and providing it. There is an obvious fragment in the D&D market that WOTC just doesn't want to address. Other companies are willing to fill that need which will impact WOTC sales more than shareware ever will. The OD&D rules and supplements have been available on the internet (illegally) for a long time. Despite this, these rules were being purchased by people right up until they were pulled from the electronic shelves. Why would people pay good money for 35 year old outdated rules that are available freely? The answer is perceived value.

Perceived value cannot be forced down the throats of consumers by attempting to deny them access to alternatives and other market manipulation nonsense. If a given product dominates the market, it should be because the quality of the product is worlds beyond the competition.
If denial of competition is seen as an option to get desired sales results then it time to re-examine the product.

 

[D'karr]

When I think of 4E sales and WOTC I can't help thinking about the Borg.

The first and foremost goal was to make sure there was no legally available WOTC electronic content on the market outside of the DDI.

You know you might make a lot of good points, but you immediately lose ground when your points are highlighted by the "conspiracy theory."

 

[ExploderWizard]

You know you might make a lot of good points, but you immediately lose ground when your points are highlighted by the "conspiracy theory."

Bad business practices are not conspiracy theories. If a drink company only makes one flavor even when market research shows that thier customer base enjoys 2 or 3 flavors, then downplaying the availability of the other flavors isn't a conspiracy, its just unwise.

For an example of what I'm talking about, does anyone remember the MAD TV ads for Spishak Cola?

 

[jbear]

It does refute to a certain degree the numbers being messed around with, which Treebore in particular, was arguing showed a supposed lack of worldwide interest in 4e based on book sales/fanbase worldwide.

 

[Obryn]

And folks wonder why we seldom see actual numbers.

-O

 

[Derren]

Assumptions are fun, huh. Except I doubt that you do get on best-seller lists with the kind of numbers you wish 4e has sold.

From my experience you need a surprisingly low number of sales to get on bestseller lists.

 

[D'karr]

Bad business practices are not conspiracy theories. If a drink company only makes one flavor even when market research shows that thier customer base enjoys 2 or 3 flavors, then downplaying the availability of the other flavors isn't a conspiracy, its just unwise.

For an example of what I'm talking about, does anyone remember the MAD TV ads for Spishak Cola?

And bad inferences about business practices, based on faulty assumptions about "goals" you probably have no evidence about, compiled with references to the borg, really don't lend credence to your argument. Which was my point.

You stated that their PRIMARY GOAL was to have no legally available WotC electronic content outside of DDi. You have no evidence that was their "primary goal." Using your analysis method I could claim that their primary goal was to consolidate all electronic content into a single PDF they can market as the "D&D Library." I have as much proof of that as you do about your claim. If I couple that with calling WotC the "Evil Empire", or the "Borg", or "Ha$bro" then my claim goes from being spurious to the realm of conspiracy theory.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

I have seen the hundreds of thousands number and the 3rd printing number so I will throw out some estimates oof what that might be. The thing to consider here is where the break point is most likely for cost difference, since it would seem likely that knowing they will go to multiple printings it is best to just purchase at those break points.

50,000 - This puts the overall number between 100,000-150,000. To small for the hundreds of thousands.
100,000 - This puts the overall number between 200,000-300,000. While possible it was stated that the first printing was as large or larger than the first 3E printing.
150,000 - This puts the overall number between 300,000-450,000. This is a possibility.
200,000 - This puts the overall number between 400,000-600,000. This is another possibility.
250,000 - This puts the overall number between 500,000-750,000. This is another possibility.
300,000 - This puts the overall number between 600,000-900,000. This is the likely high end.
350,000 - This is an unlikely break point.
400,000 - This would put the overall number between 800,000-1,200,000. This kind of number would more likely have been reported as close to one million as opposed to hundreds of thousands.

From these figures I would guess the overall number is in the 400,000-700,000 range. If someone in the publishing industry can give us the likely break points for cost we could probably get closer.