PHB2 sold out!

[Sonny]

Despite only selling 4E to a 1/6 of the current D&D fanbase, I'm not sure it's actually a failure.

We don't know how that base is divided among the various editions of D&D, not to mention the fact that WoTC obviously knew going in they weren't going to even be getting 1/3 of the fans right away. I mean, look at how small the print runs must have been to cause selling through two runs and still not reaching one million sales.

Now if they had one print run and still hadn't sold through it, I'd say WoTC failed. But it seems they knew what to expect sales wise, and it was deemed to be preferable than sticking with 3.5

 

[UngeheuerLich]

OK, at least they are running new prints for the core books... i guess there are some people like me, who will buy them now...

Their first printings were embarassing full of obvious errors... i also waited quite a while before i got the 3.5 phb for myself... i just outright forgot about the reason i didn´t buy it before...

To the topic: D&D 4e is the opposite of 3.5... both editions had their flaw when they were introduced:

3.5.: At first glance not much changed so many gamers hesitated to update! Only after playing a while you noticed many small differences and so it needed some sessions to see that more has improved than worsened... and if you don´t play once a week, it needs a year r so that more than one book is sold to a particular group.

4e: At first glance everything has changed... i am still using character builder demo, and KOTS and information from enworld and wizards to run my game... and we are having fun. Because of time issues we only play once in a while, so it takes some time to get used to the rules and to evaluate playing at a bit higher levels...

As it seems right now, I will buy the core books as soon as i see "updated" prints on the shelves... and then i will buy PHB 2, maybe also MM 2 and MP, AP and AV, maybe FR players handbook, and if I like FR (which I suspect) also the FR DM guide...

 

[lutecius]

Huh. And DESPITE the rampant piracy...

Yeah that's confusing. So which is it? Are 4e sales exceeding expectations or are they significantly hurt by piracy?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yeah that's confusing. So which is it? Are 4e sales exceeding expectations or are they significantly hurt by piracy?

There is no contradiction.

They can exceed their expectations, only to find out that they could have gotten even more if there was no piracy. That is hurting.

Imagine you'd make money at the stock exchange market (I know, that's a stretch these days ). You invested 10,000 $. If everything would have went normally, you should end up with 15,000 $. But in fact it turns out the companies you invested in made particularly well, and you will get 25,000 $. Someone steals 5,000 $ from your account. Would you be bothered by that, or would you not report the crime because you still have more money than you expected?
Or, if you want to see it different (since the pirates didn't steal money that WotC basically had, they just reduced the amount of money they could get): It turns out that you would get 20,000 instead of the expected 15,000 $, but due to gross negligence and mismanagement from your stock trader, you lost out on an additional 5,000 $. Would you sue him for that (assuming their was a law that allowed you to do so)?

 

[Echohawk]

Yeah that's confusing. So which is it? Are 4e sales exceeding expectations or are they significantly hurt by piracy?

Both seem plausible to me. Sales could be exceeding expectations, but there could also be some indication that sales would be exceeding expectations even more, if not for the pirating of PDF releases. (I'm not sure that's true, just possible.) In other words, whether sales are good or bad overall, WotC could still have reasons to think that pirated PDFs were causing them harm.

 

[xechnao]

Except I doubt that you do get on best-seller lists with the kind of numbers you wish 4e has sold.

Well, I do not.

And another point about this discussion: I have a feeling there has been a significant amount of buyers of 4e that do not bother to play the game at all (no groups or whatsoever). At least for the core books.

 

[D'karr]

there has been a significant amount of buyers of 4e that do not bother to play the game at all (no groups or whatsoever). At least for the core books.

That's the case for any game system out there... I have the GURPS Books, I don't play it. I have HERO, I don't play it. I have Call of Cthulhu, I don't play it.

Does that mean that the companies that make those games did not make money off my purchases?

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Well, I do not.

And another point about this discussion: I have a feeling there has been a significant amount of buyers of 4e that do not bother to play the game at all (no groups or whatsoever). At least for the core books.

*raises hand*

I bought the core books and still have them.

I don't play the game.

I was a sale for WOTC, but do I count as one of the 6 million people who play D&D? Even if I'm playing an edition that's no longer supported? What's their criteria for a "D&D player"? is it limited to people who are playing the most recent edition?

 

[DaveMage]

My friends at WotC seem pretty pleased, though, so my personal conclusions are that the book is meeting sales projections.

When TSR was failing in the mid-to-late 90s, reports released to the public by "insiders" was that financially things were great and that TSR was doing very well. IIRC, designers were usually left out of the financial situation "loop".

To be clear, I'm not saying that your friends are lying - but I think it should be considered that if things were bad, upper management at WotC may not share accurate info with them for fear that such bad info could leak out and cause a public perception of failure.

(Now, if Greg Leeds is one of the friends you are refferring to, then I may change my response. )

Granted, it's a no-win situation for WotC, as even if they really are doing well, many (inlcuding cynics like myself) probably wouldn't believe them. Past events, however, have me concluding that it's really not a good idea to take WotC at their word (e.g., DDI promises, OGL/GSL promises, updating of late 3.5 products to 4E ruleset promises, etc.).

 

[jbear]

In my group I have introduced 9 new players into 4e. Not one of them will ever buy any of the books. But they are all playing, enjoying and are generally enthused about the game. I have the books and thats enough for everyone.

However, they have all bought their own dice and figures.

It seems strange that people can so vehemently desire the failure of 4e, or can read into any piece of information in a way that twists the meaning into some warped support that their desire of 4e's doom, is an immenent reality.

All that negativity and negative emotions isn't going to change the reality, whatever that may be. All it will cause is stoach ulcers and cancer. Put down your cross and let it be.