PCs entering a room question

[vhailor]

|     |     |     |     |     |     |
|     |     |     |  C  |     |     |
|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|
|     |     |     |     |     |     |
|     |     |     |     |     |     |
|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|
|     |     |     |     |     |     |
|  E  |     |     |  B  |     |  E  |
|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|
|XXXXX|XXXXX|     |     |XXXXX|XXXXX|
|XXXXX|XXXXX|     |  A  |XXXXX|XXXXX|
|XXXXX|XXXXX|_____|_____|XXXXX|XXXXX|
|XXXXX|XXXXX|     |     |XXXXX|XXXXX|
|XXXXX|XXXXX| PC  | PC  |XXXXX|XXXXX|
|XXXXX|XXXXX|     |     |XXXXX|XXXXX|

1. The PCs are about to enter a room and they are unaware of their enemies(E) waiting ahead. When will they notice them? When they enter square A or B?

2. The PCs(PC) see their enemy in square C, but not those in squares E. A PC tries to move and attack the enemy in square C.
When he reaches A or B (depends on answer on 1.) and sees the other enemies, is hiw mvement interrupted. Does it happen something else?

 

[hong]

When he reaches B, the enemies at E have their readied actions triggered, and they charge.

... you DID roll init as soon as the PCs saw the enemy at C, right?

 

[KidSnide]

Unless they were hiding, the PC can see both E's in their starting position.

You measure line of sight from the most advantageous corner. So, draw a line from the upper-right-hand corner of the right-hand PC. If you draw that line towards the left-hand Enemy, you will see that you have contact to both upper corners. That's cover (not superior cover) which would allow Enemy to maintain a previously established hide, but without stealth that NPC is visible. The left-hand Enemy is also visible to, but has superior cover against the left-hand PC (there is line of sight to only one corner) as well as a third PC standing behind the right-hand PC.

-KS

 

[Noumenon]

I hope that's not the official ruling because if so it's even stupider than the rules for ranged cover, though no less intuitive.

 

[phaed]

1. The characters would see the enemies in the E squares as soon as they enter square A (or the square to the left of it)

Line of effect/sight is determined by drawing a line from any space in the starting square to any space in the target square. This does not include corners.

See http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4t...ermining-line-sight-vs-cover.html#post4509225 for a helpful diagram.

2. The PC would be able to adjust his movement if he wants, so he could choose to move to one of the enemies in the E squares instead of going to C. If the E enemies had readied actions to attack, the would have to wait until the PC resolves his movement action before they could use their readied action (since readied actions are immediate reactions, not interrupts)

 

[Mengu]

Unless they were hiding, the PC can see both E's in their starting position.

You measure line of sight from the most advantageous corner. So, draw a line from the upper-right-hand corner of the right-hand PC. If you draw that line towards the left-hand Enemy, you will see that you have contact to both upper corners. That's cover (not superior cover) which would allow Enemy to maintain a previously established hide, but without stealth that NPC is visible. The left-hand Enemy is also visible to, but has superior cover against the left-hand PC (there is line of sight to only one corner) as well as a third PC standing behind the right-hand PC.

-KS

Not quite. In their starting positions, the PC on the right has LoS to the E on the left, and the PC on the left has LoS to the E on the right. However, the only line that can be drawn between PC on the right and E on the right touches the wall, and as such, is blocked.

 

[KidSnide]

Not quite. In their starting positions, the PC on the right has LoS to the E on the left, and the PC on the left has LoS to the E on the right. However, the only line that can be drawn between PC on the right and E on the right touches the wall, and as such, is blocked.

Yes, that's right, provided that the corners in the example are "hard" corners that block the corner for line of sight/effect and prevent diagonal movement and not "soft" corners that do neither of those things.

(Looking at the diagram again, I agree that "hard" corners are probably intended.)

-KS

 

[Nail]

|     |     |     |     |     |     |
|     |     |     |  C  |     |     |
|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|
|     |     |     |     |     |     |
|     |     |     |     |     |     |
|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|
|     |     |     |     |     |     |
|  E  |     |     |  B  |     |  E  |
|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|
|XXXXX|XXXXX|     |     |XXXXX|XXXXX|
|XXXXX|XXXXX|     |  A  |XXXXX|XXXXX|
|XXXXX|XXXXX|_____|_____|XXXXX|XXXXX|
|XXXXX|XXXXX|     |     |XXXXX|XXXXX|
|XXXXX|XXXXX| PC  | PC  |XXXXX|XXXXX|
|XXXXX|XXXXX|     |     |XXXXX|XXXXX|

1. The PCs are about to enter a room and they are unaware of their enemies(E) waiting ahead. When will they notice them? When they enter square A or B?

2. The PCs(PC) see their enemy in square C, but not those in squares E. A PC tries to move and attack the enemy in square C.
When he reaches A or B (depends on answer on 1.) and sees the other enemies, is hiw mvement interrupted. Does it happen something else?

#1) Square "A". Draw a line from corner to corner. At least one doesn't touch hard cover.

#2) The PC can change the remaining part of his move action once he sees the enemies in square(s) "E", IMO. The enemies should be using their stealth (or Dex) checks.

 

[MacavityCat]

Following line of sight rules on page 274 the PCs can not see the monsters until A as a line of sight traced through a wall corner is blocked

 

[fnwc]

Following line of sight rules on page 274 the PCs can not see the monsters until A as a line of sight traced through a wall corner is blocked

I think people are getting confused by the ASCII drawing, which is using rectangles rather than actual squares (although that doesn't affect the intersection, it's hard to eyeball).

PC 1 (on the left) can see Monster E 2 (on the right) and PC 2 can see Monster E 1. In order for the corner to stop visibility between PC 1 and E2 the line would have to have a slope of 1/2 (on a Euclidean plane) and -1/2 to block PC 2 and E1.

Instead, the LOS is PC 1 (top left corner) to E 2 (top left corner) has a slope of 2/3 and the LOS from PC 2 (top right corner) to E 1 (top right corner) has a slope of -2/3.

It's easier to see with a picture: