Grading Daily Powers
- Thread starter keterys
- Start date
keterys
First Post
Thanks! I'll incorporate this feedback in when I redo the post in the hopefully not too distant future
Evilhalfling
Adventurer
Mengu I think you have underrated several of the powers:
Stirring Shout used against an elite or Solo is amazing.
An effect that generates healing for every party member that hits, based on a primary stat? use dual strike get x2 hp, use an AP, get more hp....
This single handily turned a hard dragon fight at 1st level into a cakewalk.
Macetail rage does much the same for the barbarian, its not a lot of damage up front, but makes the Barbarian much harder to kill.
I did overrate some of the powers. fires of life, and angel of fire have tested out as less useful than expected. Ill revise some of my scores.
Stirring Shout used against an elite or Solo is amazing.
An effect that generates healing for every party member that hits, based on a primary stat? use dual strike get x2 hp, use an AP, get more hp....
This single handily turned a hard dragon fight at 1st level into a cakewalk.
Macetail rage does much the same for the barbarian, its not a lot of damage up front, but makes the Barbarian much harder to kill.
I did overrate some of the powers. fires of life, and angel of fire have tested out as less useful than expected. Ill revise some of my scores.
Evilhalfling
Adventurer
my rankings, Mengus :
< revised my ranking down, > revised up
B, B+ Aspect of Might
B+,C- Oath of Final Duel
B, B- Renewing Strike
B, B Temple of Light
B, B Echos of Guardian
B, B+ Slayers Song
A+,B- Stirring Shout
B-,C+ Verse of Triumph
B+, B+ Bloodhunt Rage : > the high initial damage and potential to shorten fights, is making this look better
A-, B Macetail Rage: < temp HP easy to get for barb, low initial damage
A, B- Rage Drake Rage
C+, C- Swift Panther Rage
A, B Faerie Fire
A-, B Fires of Life: < only a AB1, in most cases will hit 2 opponents, and rarely kill any.
B+, C Savage Fenzy
B+, B Wind Prison
B, B Angelic Echelon: < orginally overrated.
C+, C Binding Chains: < good area, but 0 damage for a daily?
B, C Purging Flame
B, B+ Summon Angle of Fire: < dies easily, damage comparable to at-will.
A-, B+ Blessing of 7 Winds
B, B Cleansing Wind of North
A, A- Spirit of Healing Flood
B, B Wrath of Spirit World
A-,B- Chromatic Orb
B+,C+ Dazzling Ray , < lots of damage but just dull.
B-, C Dragonfang Bolt
B, B Lighting Breath
B,B Form of Willow Sentinel
A+, A+ Form of Winter’s Herald
B+, A- Form of Relentless Panther : < not comparatively great
B+,B+ Form of Fearsome Ram
Standouts: Stirring Shout, Form of Winters Herald.
< revised my ranking down, > revised up
B, B+ Aspect of Might
B+,C- Oath of Final Duel
B, B- Renewing Strike
B, B Temple of Light
B, B Echos of Guardian
B, B+ Slayers Song
A+,B- Stirring Shout
B-,C+ Verse of Triumph
B+, B+ Bloodhunt Rage : > the high initial damage and potential to shorten fights, is making this look better
A-, B Macetail Rage: < temp HP easy to get for barb, low initial damage
A, B- Rage Drake Rage
C+, C- Swift Panther Rage
A, B Faerie Fire
A-, B Fires of Life: < only a AB1, in most cases will hit 2 opponents, and rarely kill any.
B+, C Savage Fenzy
B+, B Wind Prison
B, B Angelic Echelon: < orginally overrated.
C+, C Binding Chains: < good area, but 0 damage for a daily?
B, C Purging Flame
B, B+ Summon Angle of Fire: < dies easily, damage comparable to at-will.
A-, B+ Blessing of 7 Winds
B, B Cleansing Wind of North
A, A- Spirit of Healing Flood
B, B Wrath of Spirit World
A-,B- Chromatic Orb
B+,C+ Dazzling Ray , < lots of damage but just dull.
B-, C Dragonfang Bolt
B, B Lighting Breath
B,B Form of Willow Sentinel
A+, A+ Form of Winter’s Herald
B+, A- Form of Relentless Panther : < not comparatively great
B+,B+ Form of Fearsome Ram
Standouts: Stirring Shout, Form of Winters Herald.
yesnomu
First Post
I don't think Rage Drake's is really that great for the Barb. You're talking about maybe one or two extra attacks per encounter, unless you're being swarmed by minions (and then you're getting away from the striker's job). It could be handy for a Rageblood if your DM let you make the attack after Swift Charge, but that requires DM adjucation. And it's totally useless against solos, too.
I also think the mobility of Swift Panther's is being underrated, but if you have Pressing Strike you can normally get where you need to be anyway.
I also think the mobility of Swift Panther's is being underrated, but if you have Pressing Strike you can normally get where you need to be anyway.
I'll try to comment on the grades that we had more than 1 click off (the difference between a B and a B+ I'll let Keterys decide, we're ballparking most of these powers any way, and the powers can easily become more or less powerful situationally).
I really don't see the attraction for this one. So whatever you're fighting won't move away and keep attacking you. As far as I'm concerned this power has no effect on melee monsters. For artillary and controllers, there are a few more applications, but you can usually move up to them, it's rare that you have to teleport to them. The damage isn't anything to write home about either.
There are so many powers that are fantastic against solos/elites, this one doesn't really rise above them. I can go up to a B but definitely not an A power. I like surgeless healing as much as anyone, but compared to spirit of healing flood, (which I think is an A power). In solo and elite fights, I like powers that kill them faster, and find them more valuable, healing powers are good when the PC's are outnumbered and everyone is getting attacked all the time. I just think this power is a little backwords.
I absolutely love this power for a Thaneborn barbarian, since they don't have many ways of gaining temporary hit points. And to top it off, it's Strength based and not Con based. But I don't think that makes it an A power. In 6 rounds of combat, if you hit 4 of those rounds, that's about 16 temporary hit points. It's comparable to what you gain from Armor of Agathys (about 13), but the aura damage over 6 rounds is considerably more than what the barbarian does with the initial attack.
I could go with a B+ because of the powers use for a Thaneborn barbarian.
This is good for chewing up minions. But difficult fights where you need a rage is usually fights where you're fighting few tough opponents. And in those fights, this might net one, maybe two attacks. There is usually no guarantee you'll be the one taking down an opponent, so the rage effect might even go wasted.
I find that the speed boost hardly comes into play. If you're a chain wering barbarian, it might come into play a bit more. The shift two is almost completely useless to any barbarian with Pressing Strike. For a barbarian without pressing strike it could be useful. I'd be willing to take the difference between our grades, and go with a C for this one.
Damage is average, slow is a very situationally useful condition, and combat advantage is not difficult to gain. I mean it's a solid daily power, but I'm curious why you think it deserves an A?
If you miss, this is a dismal daily. The after effect is usually what you're counting on. And that's a mere Con bonus healing. If you can coordinate with your strikers to take down the targets that are taking the ongoing damage (assuming you hit), is what keeps this power at the B level for me, instead of knocking it down to a C.
But just to note, it's hard to compare this power to others, because it's rather uncommon to see controller powers that act like leader powers.
I'm not sure what I was thinking of on this one... It looks like it should be at least around a B. I think it's better than Freezing Cloud, which is a B-. Less damage but much better effects. It's not easy to use though. The druid has to be built like a defender to make the best out of this.
It's just a bit of damage to one target. For a controller daily, this is a dud as far as I'm concerned, but I gave it a C since the damage isn't bad.
The uncrontrollable nature of this power is very unfortunate. Against an undead, you might be hoping for some radiant damage, and get ongoing poison instead, which does nothing. Not an A.
Comparing to some thing like Brute Strike, it's about the same damage. Brute Strike is a C+, I didn't think the unreliable nature of the wild magic was enough to bump it up a knotch.
It's a power vs fortitude, and poison is the most resisted energy type. I guess if you were going with a poison theme it would be all right, but this is definitely not an impressive daily. It's comparable to Acid arrow, which is a C power.
I really don't see the attraction for this one. So whatever you're fighting won't move away and keep attacking you. As far as I'm concerned this power has no effect on melee monsters. For artillary and controllers, there are a few more applications, but you can usually move up to them, it's rare that you have to teleport to them. The damage isn't anything to write home about either.
There are so many powers that are fantastic against solos/elites, this one doesn't really rise above them. I can go up to a B but definitely not an A power. I like surgeless healing as much as anyone, but compared to spirit of healing flood, (which I think is an A power). In solo and elite fights, I like powers that kill them faster, and find them more valuable, healing powers are good when the PC's are outnumbered and everyone is getting attacked all the time. I just think this power is a little backwords.
I absolutely love this power for a Thaneborn barbarian, since they don't have many ways of gaining temporary hit points. And to top it off, it's Strength based and not Con based. But I don't think that makes it an A power. In 6 rounds of combat, if you hit 4 of those rounds, that's about 16 temporary hit points. It's comparable to what you gain from Armor of Agathys (about 13), but the aura damage over 6 rounds is considerably more than what the barbarian does with the initial attack.
I could go with a B+ because of the powers use for a Thaneborn barbarian.
This is good for chewing up minions. But difficult fights where you need a rage is usually fights where you're fighting few tough opponents. And in those fights, this might net one, maybe two attacks. There is usually no guarantee you'll be the one taking down an opponent, so the rage effect might even go wasted.
I find that the speed boost hardly comes into play. If you're a chain wering barbarian, it might come into play a bit more. The shift two is almost completely useless to any barbarian with Pressing Strike. For a barbarian without pressing strike it could be useful. I'd be willing to take the difference between our grades, and go with a C for this one.
Damage is average, slow is a very situationally useful condition, and combat advantage is not difficult to gain. I mean it's a solid daily power, but I'm curious why you think it deserves an A?
If you miss, this is a dismal daily. The after effect is usually what you're counting on. And that's a mere Con bonus healing. If you can coordinate with your strikers to take down the targets that are taking the ongoing damage (assuming you hit), is what keeps this power at the B level for me, instead of knocking it down to a C.
But just to note, it's hard to compare this power to others, because it's rather uncommon to see controller powers that act like leader powers.
I'm not sure what I was thinking of on this one... It looks like it should be at least around a B. I think it's better than Freezing Cloud, which is a B-. Less damage but much better effects. It's not easy to use though. The druid has to be built like a defender to make the best out of this.
It's just a bit of damage to one target. For a controller daily, this is a dud as far as I'm concerned, but I gave it a C since the damage isn't bad.
The uncrontrollable nature of this power is very unfortunate. Against an undead, you might be hoping for some radiant damage, and get ongoing poison instead, which does nothing. Not an A.
Comparing to some thing like Brute Strike, it's about the same damage. Brute Strike is a C+, I didn't think the unreliable nature of the wild magic was enough to bump it up a knotch.
It's a power vs fortitude, and poison is the most resisted energy type. I guess if you were going with a poison theme it would be all right, but this is definitely not an impressive daily. It's comparable to Acid arrow, which is a C power.
ChristopherA
First Post
My level 9 ratings:
A Divine Power, Wall of Fire, Knockout
A- Blade Barrier
B+ Ice Storm
B+ Flame Strike, Attacks on the Run, White Raven Strike
B Spray of Arrows, Victorious Surge
B- Shift the Battlefield, Thicket of Blades
C+ Summons of Khirad, Radiant Pulse, Astral Defenders
C+ Crimson Edge, Deadly Positioning, Knock them Down, Crown of Glory
C/B Curse of the Black Frost
C Close Quarters Shot, Iron Spike of Dis, Lightning Serpent
C- Swirling Leaves of Steel, Mordenkainen’s Sword, Iron Dragon Charge
D+ Thief of Five Fates, One Stands Alone
Blade Barrier: Maybe it isn’t as good as Wall of Fire, but it is still a very potent power. I like how you can nab opponents in the wall without hurting your melee-fighting friends. This makes it more practical for them to try to stop the enemies from moving out of the barrier.
Victorious Surge: Free hit points are a good thing, potentially better than damage in my view (since players normally dish out a lot more damage than they receive). And this is a around 4W free hit points, and they are reliable. So this is much better than the 5W/half miss that I figure is C+ at this level.
One Stands Alone: Without the limitation, this power is good but not great, at best the B- you gave it. But the limitation is so onerous! The party is always fighting close together, there will so often be a party member within 5. Sure, you are bound to find some point during the day when you are allowed to use the power – but daily powers are much less effective when you have to use them the first chance you are allowed to, rather than when they are really needed or tactically useful.
Spray of Arrows: I do not at all see how Spray of Arrows can be ranked the same as Swirling Leaves of Steel. Close burst 3 (enemies only) is much, much better than close burst 1 (enemies only). This power causes a lot of damage!
Knockout: I give an A under the proviso that the party has something spectacularly evil to do with its free critical hit.
Iron Dragon Charge: One of my parties actually has a charge specialist, and this power still didn’t seem very tempting to take. It just seems like you would have to work so hard to set it up.
White Raven Strike: To me, this stands out way ahead of the other two warlord options at this level. 30 automatic temporary hit points is a lot of temporary hit points.
Mordenkainen’s Sword: I’m happy to spend lots of minor actions and some move actions to sustain a potent conjuration, but this just isn’t so potent.
A Divine Power, Wall of Fire, Knockout
A- Blade Barrier
B+ Ice Storm
B+ Flame Strike, Attacks on the Run, White Raven Strike
B Spray of Arrows, Victorious Surge
B- Shift the Battlefield, Thicket of Blades
C+ Summons of Khirad, Radiant Pulse, Astral Defenders
C+ Crimson Edge, Deadly Positioning, Knock them Down, Crown of Glory
C/B Curse of the Black Frost
C Close Quarters Shot, Iron Spike of Dis, Lightning Serpent
C- Swirling Leaves of Steel, Mordenkainen’s Sword, Iron Dragon Charge
D+ Thief of Five Fates, One Stands Alone
Blade Barrier: Maybe it isn’t as good as Wall of Fire, but it is still a very potent power. I like how you can nab opponents in the wall without hurting your melee-fighting friends. This makes it more practical for them to try to stop the enemies from moving out of the barrier.
Victorious Surge: Free hit points are a good thing, potentially better than damage in my view (since players normally dish out a lot more damage than they receive). And this is a around 4W free hit points, and they are reliable. So this is much better than the 5W/half miss that I figure is C+ at this level.
One Stands Alone: Without the limitation, this power is good but not great, at best the B- you gave it. But the limitation is so onerous! The party is always fighting close together, there will so often be a party member within 5. Sure, you are bound to find some point during the day when you are allowed to use the power – but daily powers are much less effective when you have to use them the first chance you are allowed to, rather than when they are really needed or tactically useful.
Spray of Arrows: I do not at all see how Spray of Arrows can be ranked the same as Swirling Leaves of Steel. Close burst 3 (enemies only) is much, much better than close burst 1 (enemies only). This power causes a lot of damage!
Knockout: I give an A under the proviso that the party has something spectacularly evil to do with its free critical hit.
Iron Dragon Charge: One of my parties actually has a charge specialist, and this power still didn’t seem very tempting to take. It just seems like you would have to work so hard to set it up.
White Raven Strike: To me, this stands out way ahead of the other two warlord options at this level. 30 automatic temporary hit points is a lot of temporary hit points.
Mordenkainen’s Sword: I’m happy to spend lots of minor actions and some move actions to sustain a potent conjuration, but this just isn’t so potent.
keterys
First Post
_blast_ 3, not burst 3. They're both a 3x3 area for the same damage.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
I'd still campaign for to go down. Heck, I'd rate it a C- and recommend it never gets taken.
The big area might look useful, but it's basically a trap because you are very unlikely to get a big area with lots of foes to use it against. Perhaps in a battle with dozens of minions in an open area you could get it off before your mates get into the fight and don't give you the area - but the damage is still pitifully low and, crucially, every minion you miss is untouched by it.
Stinking Cloud by comparison is only radius 1 smaller area, is guaranteed to kill every minion inside it, by the start of your next round has done more damage than a fireball (2d10 + 2* bonuses) and can still be sustained for more and moved around and obscures vision. Sure, stinking cloud is very strong, but fireball? Bah. In any situation other than a battleboard completely filled with mooks it is weak, and even then it isn't exactly strong because you don't kill them on a miss.
Cheers
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
I agree here - Mordys sword doesn't seem that potent compared to spiritual weapon. It attacks Ref which is a slight advantage to hit, but it doesn't grant CA (so SW is sorta giving +2 to everyone else, which is probably stronger on balance).
Cheers
