Ritual Stones

[Mercurius]

An idea that came to mind. One thing about 4E that I haven't quite gotten the hang of is the use of rituals within game play. With their long casting time it seems virtually impossible to use, say, Make Whole or Knock within a dangerous dungeon, even less so in the heat of an encounter. Perhaps that is what makes them fun and interesting, but given this limitation wouldn't spell-casters have figured out a way to circumvent this a bit, even more than scrolls?

Forgive me if I am simply re-inventing the wheel here (I am not that familiar with the magic items yet), but what about a minor magical item called a "Ritual Stone" that basically stores a ritual that can be used as a Standard Action? There are many ways this could work, with varying degrees of cost.

*One time use - once the ritual is cast the stone becomes inert
*As a daily power - is recharged after a day
*As an encounter power - is recharged after an encounter
*A "blank tape" stone - The stone can hold whatever ritual is cast onto it, but once used it is once more "blank"

Is there something like this already existing within the rules? If not, what sort of GP cost should each type require? As magic items, what level and GP value would they have?

Thanks!

 

[Garthanos]

An idea that came to mind. One thing about 4E that I haven't quite gotten the hang of is the use of rituals within game play. With their long casting time it seems virtually impossible to use, say, Make Whole or Knock within a dangerous dungeon, even less so in the heat of an encounter. Perhaps that is what makes them fun and interesting, but given this limitation wouldn't spell-casters have figured out a way to circumvent this a bit, even more than scrolls?

Forgive me if I am simply re-inventing the wheel here (I am not that familiar with the magic items yet), but what about a minor magical item called a "Ritual Stone" that basically stores a ritual that can be used as a Standard Action? There are many ways this could work, with varying degrees of cost.

*One time use - once the ritual is cast the stone becomes inert
*As a daily power - is recharged after a day
*As an encounter power - is recharged after an encounter
*A "blank tape" stone - The stone can hold whatever ritual is cast onto it, but once used it is once more "blank"

Is there something like this already existing within the rules? If not, what sort of GP cost should each type require? As magic items, what level and GP value would they have?

Thanks!

The players handbook 2 describes variant spell books... like complex knots to tubes of glass, Before seeing that I came up with eladrin mind crystals... and a shards for scrolls. But that doesnt get things down to a standard action, it just acknowledges that ritualists dont have to look like the scroll toters.

I did make up one that was considered dangerous... umm called it mind imprinting caused the ritualist to loose experience points instead of money.. so you could be lower level than your allies and watch them fight as you gradually faded behind, but no player has taken me up on it ;-)

 

[Nytmare]

With their long casting time it seems virtually impossible to use, say, Make Whole or Knock within a dangerous dungeon, even less so in the heat of an encounter.

I thought that the entire idea concerning rituals was that there were some abilities they didn't want to have happen within the bounds of a combat encounter?


Side note: While looking through the rituals, Disenchant Magic Item struck me as a really, really bad idea to re-introduce into the game as an offensive ability.

 

[Garthanos]

Side note: While looking through the rituals, Disenchant Magic Item struck me as a really, really bad idea to re-introduce into the game as an offensive ability.

Right , partly because heros in D&D are magic item dependent.. Elric of Melnibone addicts unite ;-)

 

[Scion9]

I think a better solution to 'in combat rituals' is just hand pick the rituals you want usable on the fly, like Knock, and create a set of consumable items (scrolls, potions, stones, et cetera) that can be created with the relevant item creation rituals that replicate the effects of those specific rituals.

You would avoid the mid-combat disenchant, mid-combat fully functional group teleport, but still allow your ritualist to throw around a knock or two around in a dungeon without having him sit down for a full 10 minutes, straining the narrative pace of skulking through a dungeon, evading patrols, or whatever particular .

Alternatively, perhaps a Woundrous Item that cuts the casting time down on some rituals to a more reasonable out of combat time frame. Say, 30 seconds to a minute for Knock. Too long to throw around in combat, but not too long to bog down the narrative pace.

 

[Sadrik]

I think a better solution to 'in combat rituals' is just hand pick the rituals you want usable on the fly, like Knock, and create a set of consumable items (scrolls, potions, stones, et cetera) that can be created with the relevant item creation rituals that replicate the effects of those specific rituals.

You would avoid the mid-combat disenchant, mid-combat fully functional group teleport, but still allow your ritualist to throw around a knock or two around in a dungeon without having him sit down for a full 10 minutes, straining the narrative pace of skulking through a dungeon, evading patrols, or whatever particular .

Alternatively, perhaps a Woundrous Item that cuts the casting time down on some rituals to a more reasonable out of combat time frame. Say, 30 seconds to a minute for Knock. Too long to throw around in combat, but not too long to bog down the narrative pace.

Perhaps an item that stores the ritual. So you cast it earlier in the day and you can activate it with a standard action at a later time. It would be linked to the caster so for instance you could not give the item to someone else to activate. It seems reasonable. What tier would that be accessible? I would say heroic, since the rituals themselves scale at all levels. Perhaps a level 8 or 9 item?

 

[Garthanos]

I think a better solution to 'in combat rituals' is just hand pick the rituals you want usable on the fly, like Knock, and create a set of consumable items (scrolls, potions, stones, et cetera) that can be created with the relevant item creation rituals that replicate the effects of those specific rituals..

I suspect its not just effects like... disenchant.... knock and others might be seen as wizards stepping on the toes of other classes

 

[Nytmare]

I suspect its not just effects like... disenchant.... knock and others might be seen as wizards stepping on the toes of other classes

Yeah, I had just been replying with the same thing. Knock was the one that made me start thinking that maybe a lot of this was meant to stop the whole Batman effect.

 

[Scion9]

I suspect its not just effects like... disenchant.... knock and others might be seen as wizards stepping on the toes of other classes

That's true, but Thievery is free while Knock costs gold, so I think that evens the playing field.

In addition, the only time I think that an instant or quick Knock would really step on the toes of Thievery trained characters is when there is actually a time factor in opening the lock.

Usually it's not, so the sitting, burning incense, chanting from a book and drawing runes in specially prepared chalks for 10 minutes seems bizarre mid-'dungeon' which is pretty much what Knock is for anyway.

There is also the high potential that a party does not have a character with Thievery, or a even a good Thievery check if you do. Only Rogues get it automatically, Warlocks can train it but have no reason to pick up Dex, and that leaves Eladrin that use Dex and choose to train it as their bonus feat to get by any difficult lock.

In such a scenario I probably just wouldn't include too many locked doors in my dungeons, but I think a viable workaround would to give Ritual Casters more play, without the narrative straining 10 minute rituals.