1/2 HP, 3/4 HP, -20%HP, +1/2 level etc --> why not this

[Sadrik]

There is a lot of rules floating around that reduces the HP of monsters and increases the damage of players and monsters. These rules are established to lower the number of rounds of play in a combat and to make the players squirm a bit at the additional damage. These rules are here for those who are experimenting with the rules in this area.

Here is a fix where you dont ever have to mess with the HP of the monsters:

1. Players add their level to their damage. 20th level character adds +20 to their damage. It seems like a lot but now their is no messing around with the HP of the monsters. Players are always happy at adding additional damage to their character so this seems like a shoe in.

2. Monsters add 1/2 their level to their damage, but this can easily be slid up or down depending on the DMs mood and the situation they are in.

 

[eriktheguy]

Could work. Kind of makes the difference between a 1[W] at will and a 3[W] daily seem minuscule though. Rules that reduce monster HP make the stronger attacks more significant. Sorry, I think I'll stick with those.

 

[Sadrik]

Could work. Kind of makes the difference between a 1[W] at will and a 3[W] daily seem minuscule though. Rules that reduce monster HP make the stronger attacks more significant. Sorry, I think I'll stick with those.

This is a double edged sword, you point out the negative aspect but the positive aspect is that it more normalizes the damage within the various roles. Having controllers do +20 damage is going to have more impact on them (ratio-wise) than the striker. This is good imho, it makes the other roles more viable outside of the striker.

I in fact think that the positive way outweighs the negative by a factor of 10.

So whether you are doing +1/2 level damage (+10 damage at 20) and some fraction of the HP of creatures or +1/level damage (+20 damage at 20th level) and no fraction of HP seems to be a slight variant. For simplicities sake giving a bit more damage to the PCs seems like a win-win in my book.

 

[DanmarLOK]

It vastly overpowers AOE attacks though and attacks that are two separate attacks in one like Twin Strike.

One thing I've tried is adding half level in damage to the first successful hit roll of any attack (PC and NPC) and attack rolls have to be done in logical order either first one in the blast area or the center of the blast etc.

It works out reasonable well if you ignore the gap in logic of why one attack is more potent than another.

 

[eriktheguy]

This is a double edged sword, you point out the negative aspect but the positive aspect is that it more normalizes the damage within the various roles. Having controllers do +20 damage is going to have more impact on them (ratio-wise) than the striker. This is good imho, it makes the other roles more viable outside of the striker.

I in fact think that the positive way outweighs the negative by a factor of 10.

So whether you are doing +1/2 level damage (+10 damage at 20) and some fraction of the HP of creatures or +1/level damage (+20 damage at 20th level) and no fraction of HP seems to be a slight variant. For simplicities sake giving a bit more damage to the PCs seems like a win-win in my book.

Yes, it makes controllers more powerful (which I think is badly needed), but when a fighters at-will does 30 average damage, and his daily does 40 average, the difference is not really noticed, not as much as when his at-wills were doing 15 and his dailies 30, that is a bigger difference. Using lower monster HP also makes controllers more effective, as every point of damage becomes more valuable.

 

[Sadrik]

Yes, it makes controllers more powerful (which I think is badly needed), but when a fighters at-will does 30 average damage, and his daily does 40 average, the difference is not really noticed, not as much as when his at-wills were doing 15 and his dailies 30, that is a bigger difference. Using lower monster HP also makes controllers more effective, as every point of damage becomes more valuable.

Lets make some assumptions for analysis:
At-will 15 damage 2d6 +5 (stat) +3 (magic) --> lower for controllers
Encounter 22 damage 4d6 +8
Daily 29 damage 6d6 +8

Then add on a level bonus for level 20 either +10 for 1/2 level or +20 for full level.
25 or 35
32 or 42
39 or 49

They are still doing the same difference in damage. However the ratio changes. When the difference between a daily and an at-will is only 14 points of damage it is already an only slight upgrade in damage anyway. Additionally we have been comparing 20th level characters at 21st level the damage of the at-will is upgraded to 22 damage and then the damage difference is only 7 points.

I still think that the better way to do this is to add your whole level and not mess with the HP of monsters at all.

More analysis:
Black Slaad (level 20 skirmisher) has 191 HP
Under 1/2 HP +1/2 level damage
95HP and characters are doing +10 damage say an average of 30 HP per hit. So 3 hits or so.
Under 3/4 HP + 1/2 level damage
it has 143 HP and they can drop it in 5 hits or so
Under + level damage
it has 191 HP and they do an average of 40 HP per hit and drop it in about 5 hits or so.

So at least by this analysis they drop it in a similar amount of time as the 3/4 +1/2 damage route.

Oh and lets point out that under normal rules this beasty would take about 10 hits to kill and he is not even an elite, soldier or solo.

 

[Elric]

It vastly overpowers AOE attacks though and attacks that are two separate attacks in one like Twin Strike.

This rules change would also vastly overpower ways to get additional attacks without taking actions. For example, the Ranger power Fox's Cunning, and other minor action/immediate action attack powers, along with Warlord abilities that grant free attacks. It would generally improve the value of to-hit bonuses compared to damage bonuses as well.

 

[keterys]

Any increase to damage that multiplies across number of attacks is pretty much inherently doomed from my perspective.

A once per round increase of damage of Level, like a striker? Sure.

 

[Sadrik]

Any increase to damage that multiplies across number of attacks is pretty much inherently doomed from my perspective.

A once per round increase of damage of Level, like a striker? Sure.

Perhaps "+ level" if you have only one attack and "+1/2 level" if you have more than one attack roll.

So AoE and twin strike only add "+1/2 level" but most powers add "+ level" damage. This seems a nice balance. If you get more attack rolls you have a better chance of getting some damage in. This tremendously leg-ups the wizard too.

 

[keterys]

How about something like Rain of Steel (1W to anyone who starts next to you, daily) or the autodamage from stinking cloud or flaming sphere?

It does make Fox's Cunning, Disruptive Strike, Low Slash, etc even more appealing - minor or immediate action methods to add serious spike damage.