Psion to debut in July

[Thanee]

So, what are folks thoughts?: )

I expect it to be reasonably balanced (for the first time).

Other than that, it will be useful for those who like the psionics flavor, for others it will just be one more keyword (not even that, psychic is already in the PHB).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

The vast majority of people ... Most of the people ... the vast, vast majority of people ...

How do you know what the vast, vast majority of people wants?

I'm reasonably confident, that the vast majority of people who like 4E like the fact that they do not have completely different mechanics for every class, quite specifically.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Rechan]

I expect it to be reasonably balanced (for the first time).

Bite your tongue. 3.5 psionics were balanced like a trapeze walker.

 

[Obryn]

I don't think there's any chance that the Psion will operate significantly outside the normal 4e power structure. I could be wrong - but I just don't see it happening, so if that's the only way you'll be happy with it, get ready for disappointmen. I really don't see a power point system working for 4e as such, but on the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if Psions could give their powers boosts of some sort as a class feature, maybe, to represent spending more power points.

I've been very happy with the way the 4e designers have used a combination of class features and power details to give each class a distinctive feel. I hope this trend continues, because without interesting class features, it'll just be another Wizard or Invoker.

-O

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

We have already seen the Monk playtest. We can be certain other Psionic classes will use the same framework as all other classes. I would be surprised of anything else.

What we might see is an interesting twist - like with the Monk. The Monks "full disciplines" basically combine an attack power with a (movement related) utility power.
Or like with the Barbarian and his Rages.
Or the Vestige Pact Warlock with his Vestiges.
Or the Wizard with his extra daily and utility spells.

Of course I am not sure that the Psion needs such a "gimmicky" aspect. Sure, someone that doesn't like the power structure in 4E would want a different system. In 3E, Psions were great to remove Vancian Magic that many people disliked, too. But I do not think that this was the reason Psionics were introduced in D&D. I think the reason was that they should provide a different flavor, not just for having a different resource management. And 4E puts its flavor in the details of the implementation, not the general mechanics.

 

[drothgery]

So, lessee, what would the classes be?

Controller - Psion
Defender - Psychic Warrior
Leader - Ardent Mind? (forget the exact name)
Striker - Monk (confirmed)

Although...wouldn't it be freaky if the psionic leader was a telepath and used his telepathic abilities to boost his friends and hinder his enemies? He would be a leader, but it would be through manipulation. Of course, that might work with the controller too.

There's no particular reason why the psionic classes need to cover all 4 roles, or why there have to be 4 of them (particularly if the subtitle on the cover wasn't just a placeholder).

The 3.x psuedo-leader-esque psionic classes were Ardent and Divine Mind, but in 4e terminology those two seem like they would be more of a hash between divine classes and psionic classes; maybe they'll end up as paragon paths that requires divine/psionic multiclassing if they don't just get dropped entirely.

I'm not a big fan of the Psychic Warrior, myself; it's been around for every version of psionics since 2e, but they've got all the flavor of a stale cracker. I mean, maybe the flavor is psychometabolism/self-buffing heavy, but I could really see it being dropped. Probably won't be, though.

I had expected the generic psion to be dropped, because it just covered too much ground. It was both a striker and a controller, and I kind of think the realm covered by the energy powers really largely belongs to arcane classes (and maybe elemental classes if/when that shows up).

But the Soulknife was too flavorful to be dropped or relegated to a paragon path, and iffy as a defender, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see five psionic classes.

controller - Psion
defender - Psychic Warrior
leader - Empath
striker - Monk
striker - Soulknife

 

[Rechan]

Or the Wizard with his extra daily and utility spells.

IMO I think a better comparison is the Wizard with his cantrips.

But I agree. I anticipate several things.

1) The Psionic classes will fit into the At-Will/Encounter/Daily framework. All classes fit into that. That's how the entire system is balanced.
2) The Psionic power source classes will have some universal mechanics (like how all Divine classes have Channel Divinity and do radiant damage, all Primal classes get more HP for their role and often function in lighter armor). Although the Monk may be the odd man out here.
3) The classes' class features are going to do stuff we haven't seen before. Like the Monk and his attack/movement powers. Like the Druid and the Wildshape/Beast keyword powers. Or the Avenger's Oath of Emnity. The designers are experimenting with Different Things.

Also, it would not Surprise me if the Soul Knife did not make the cut. Much like the 3e Druid got carved into the Warden, Shaman and Druid, the Soul Knife might get eaten by the Psychic Warrior. The Soul Knife's only distinctive quality is that he could make his own weapon, and that could easily be cannibalized by another class. Or it could turn into a multi-class (ala the Weapon specialization multi-classes from Dragon, or the Spellscarred).

 

[1of3]

Psions also became more artillery than "controllers", and 3rd ed lacked tactics, the push pull slide teleporting of 4th ed is such a wonderful change, it means psions and others don't just have to be "nukers".

Really? What about time hop, ectoplasmic wall, entangling ectoplam, induce pain. Then psions have the best communication and scrying powers in the game. Personally I'd say making a 3.5 psion artillery is kind of wasted.


Anyway, I'm looking forward to the new psion

 

[kenmarable]

4e psionics is going to be...tricky. The vast majority of people who like psionics, loved 3.5's rendition of them, and very, very strongly want a mechanical difference between them and other types of casters - which simply won't happen in 4e. Most of the people that dislike psionics, well, dislike them. I think 4e is going to be in a really rough spot as far as psionics goes, simply because they're 1) coming out of a psionics system that was, in my opinion, the very avatar of elegence and simplicity, and 2) the vast, vast majority of people who like psionics don't want them to be just a reskinned wizard, and want different game mechanics from how wizards do things to fit the idea of them gaining their power in a radically different way.

I agree entirely. However, with the PHB2 classes they pushed the envelope with some newer twists, and the monk playtest shows that they are pushing things even further to make classes more unique.

So, until I see otherwise, I have faith that WotC will find a 4e way to have the psion exhibit some unique mechanics within the 4e framework. Either way, I am really, really eager to see it!

 

[Dragonhelm]

There's no particular reason why the psionic classes need to cover all 4 roles, or why there have to be 4 of them (particularly if the subtitle on the cover wasn't just a placeholder).

That seems to be the trend, as displayed with the primal power source, so I'm just making the assumption that this trend will continue.

The 3.x psuedo-leader-esque psionic classes were Ardent and Divine Mind, but in 4e terminology those two seem like they would be more of a hash between divine classes and psionic classes; maybe they'll end up as paragon paths that requires divine/psionic multiclassing if they don't just get dropped entirely.

Very likely. It seems there's more of a focus now on keeping each power source's theme separate.

I'm not a big fan of the Psychic Warrior, myself; it's been around for every version of psionics since 2e, but they've got all the flavor of a stale cracker. I mean, maybe the flavor is psychometabolism/self-buffing heavy, but I could really see it being dropped. Probably won't be, though.

I imagine they'll give it more identity, much as they've done with the sorcerer.

But the Soulknife was too flavorful to be dropped or relegated to a paragon path, and iffy as a defender, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see five psionic classes.

controller - Psion
defender - Psychic Warrior
leader - Empath
striker - Monk
striker - Soulknife

What they might do too is have the mind blade powers given to the psychic warrior.

Man, psionics can't come soon enough!