Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Sneak Peeks (Old thread)

[Windjammer]

So how about that water naga? Coolest naga I've seen in a while. Wonder how its poison rates among the revised toxins in terms of lethality, considering how poison and disease are apparently getting boosted.

Good example. (And by the way, I agree on the flavour. See, in terms of flavour, I liked the new allip, though it doesn't quite compare with the reflavoured annis hag.)

So here's the Naga's special attack:

Poison (Ex) Bite, level 7, save Fort DC 19, frequency 1 round (10), effect 1 Con damage, cure 1 save.

Can anyone clue me in as to how poison works in the PFRPG? The best I found quoted this part from the rules text, but that was nearly a year ago: "With most afflictions, if a number of saving throws are made consecutively, the affliction is removed and no further saves are necessary."

So what's the frequency of PCs allowed saving rolls? Compared to 4E's 1/round "Save ends" clause?

 

[Starbuck_II]

"Wisdom 0 means that a creature is lapsed into a deep sleep filled with nightmares, helpless." (Rules Compendium, p.6)

Say, how about someone running the numbers on how many successful touch attacks an allip requires to TPK a 3rd level party of four characters, on the presumpion the allip drains them into helpless condition and then coup-de-graces them one after another?

Seeing as you don't have magic weapons at level 3 (not affordable by Wealth per level unless Monty Haul campaign): As long as the allip wants.

But in general: who has good Wisdom.
If we use standard party: that leaves the Cleric. Both the Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard don't need Wisdom directly.
(Wizard already has decent will saves, Rogue has good skill ranks for wisdom skills, and Fighter has physical stats to increase.).

So Fighter and Rogue out due to babble about 70-75% of time.
That leaves Wizard/Cleric (decent chance of saving). Cleric can turn although turn resistance and the fact that it has higher HD.

Even if Cleric turns it: that means it flees through the walls to return again later.
You only delay the TPK.
Spells have 50% miss chance.

It basically requires four of these on a Wis 10 character. So we're now talking about a scenario where professional designers need to prevent scenarios where a player controlling a frontline fighter doesn't get the point after three successive Wis draining attacks in a row that maybe, just maybe, a switch in strategy is in order.

Deadly!

Yeah, it is pretty deadly.

 

[Bluenose]

Well, Erik, I hope that your designers also got rid of the beetle swarm as a CR 1 monster, because as you point out here, handling the swarm at level 1 requires player skill. Sorry, that sort of thinking is mightily out of vogue. People's only concern is that a party having failed to come up with a viable strategy in the first place is then forced to come up with a viable strategy for the sake of damage control. And that, apparently, is Bad Design (tm).

I fail to see any particular player skill involved. Either:

1. The party wizard/sorcerer has a particular spell memorised, thereby trivialising the whole encounter.
or
2. RAW claim that flasks of lamp oil can be used as Molotov cocktails, and who are we to argue?

Some groups dislike cheesy tactics.

 

[malkav666]

Good example. (And by the way, I agree on the flavour. See, in terms of flavour, I liked the new allip, though it doesn't quite compare with the reflavoured annis hag.)

So here's the Naga's special attack:

Poison (Ex) Bite, level 7, save Fort DC 19, frequency 1 round (10), effect 1 Con damage, cure 1 save.

Can anyone clue me in as to how poison works in the PFRPG? The best I found quoted this part from the rules text, but that was nearly a year ago: "With most afflictions, if a number of saving throws are made consecutively, the affliction is removed and no further saves are necessary."

So what's the frequency of PCs allowed saving rolls? Compared to 4E's 1/round "Save ends" clause?

I am not sure about the part of the reading that is in parenthesis (The (10) after 1 round to be specific). But the rest of it looks like it plays like this:

The monster bites you and you need to make a fort save DC 19 or take 1 point of con damage. The poison will continue to to do one point of damage a round until you make a total of 1 saves against it.

So yeah this particular monster looks like it plays a lot like a 4e monster as in when the target makes a successful save then its over. But I am not sure when the saves for ongoing effects happen in PFRPG (either at the end or start of a given players turn makes the most sense), so it may differ in that way. And I am pretty sure there will be poison and/or disease effects that require more than a single save to shake.

So yes I would say the mechanics are comparable between the 4e "save ends" and the way PFRPG is handling poison. But I can also see its roots still in that it is still fit snugly withing the 3.x saving throw mechanic. So its kind of a toss up IMO. But regardless of the inspiration for the design, I think it will add a new dynamic to poisons (whereas before they were kind of..."Oh i got infected, handle initial damage, and then worry about the rest after the encounter" and now with an active save system I beleive they will have moe an effect on combat encounters).

It seems like a solid choice, but it is one of those that I will playtest before I make my judgement on. But I think it would not be that difficult to roll poisons and diseases back to the 3.x style if it did not fit for me. We shall see.

love,

malkav

 

[bouncyhead]

Poison (Ex) Bite, level 7, save Fort DC 19, frequency 1 round (10), effect 1 Con damage, cure 1 save.

Can anyone clue me in as to how poison works in the PFRPG?

I think in the example above, the poison attacks once per round for 10 rounds as long as the target keeps failing saves (and the poison does CON damage, so you can get into a nasty spiral). A single save is enough to stop the horror.

 

[malkav666]

I think in the example above, the poison attacks once per round for 10 rounds as long as the target keeps failing saves (and the poison does CON damage, so you can get into a nasty spiral). A single save is enough to stop the horror.

I wonder how multiple bites from the naga are handled. if that is in fact a poison counter (the 10) that says how long it can last. If a second bite were to occur do you think another 10 rounds would be added to the first? Or maybe the countdown just resets and can climb back up towards 10 again? Or perhaps each biting is its own instance and requires its own save per round, each doing a point of con per round.

I am very curious to see the final mechanics.

love,

malkav

 

[bouncyhead]

Hmmm.. the entry in the Bestiary isn't clear. I assume you won't run the doses in parallel - that would get very book-keepy. If you got a save (for the second bite) and you made it, would it stop the in-effect poison from the earlier bite I wonder?

The (10) is definitely the round count for continuing effects - there is a note to that effect in the Bestiary.

 

[coyote6]

So here's the Naga's special attack:

Poison (Ex) Bite, level 7, save Fort DC 19, frequency 1 round (10), effect 1 Con damage, cure 1 save.

Can anyone clue me in as to how poison works in the PFRPG? The best I found quoted this part from the rules text, but that was nearly a year ago: "With most afflictions, if a number of saving throws are made consecutively, the affliction is removed and no further saves are necessary."

So what's the frequency of PCs allowed saving rolls? Compared to 4E's 1/round "Save ends" clause?

I think the "frequency" entry describes how frequently they have to save; so this looks like it requires a save every round for 10 rounds, with each failed save dealing 1 Con damage. The "cure 1 save" seems like it means that once you make 1 save, you've shaken off the poison and don't have to save any more. So, this poison seems to effectively be like 4e's "save ends" -- except that it's a 3e-style Fort save, DC 19, rather than a "roll 10+" 4e-style save.

Other poisons can have different "cure" conditions, I imagine -- like "3 saves" or maybe even "get antidote". I like it. More flexible than regular 3e poisons, letting you both duplicate existing poisons (frequency 1 minute, with 2 saves), make up some truly nasty poisons (e.g., something with a high number of saves required to cure), and make up some of those "you've been poisoned and have 48 hours to find the cure" so beloved of fiction.

I wonder how multiple exposures work -- if Joe Cleric gets bit 3 times in succession, is he rolling 3 saves per round? That could get painful, fast, for poisons with "cure 3 saves" or the like.

 

[an_idol_mind]

I wonder how multiple bites from the naga are handled. if that is in fact a poison counter (the 10) that says how long it can last. If a second bite were to occur do you think another 10 rounds would be added to the first? Or maybe the countdown just resets and can climb back up towards 10 again? Or perhaps each biting is its own instance and requires its own save per round, each doing a point of con per round.

I am very curious to see the final mechanics.

love,

malkav

Common sense to me would be that the poison duration gets reset to 10 for each subsequent bite. Of course, rules don't always mesh with my definition of common sense, but I think that would be the easiest way to run it in combat.

 

[Windjammer]

Seeing as you don't have magic weapons at level 3 (not affordable by Wealth per level unless Monty Haul campaign): As long as the allip wants.

Holy water, 25 gp for a flask, 2d4 dmg. Admittedly, 50% miss chance over and above hitting the allip's touch AC (15 in 3.5, 14 in Pathfinder). You don't need to be a paladin to throw these flasks, you know. But I guess throwing holy molotov coctails and bathing your weapons in holy water go under the heading of outdated cheesy tactics, as anyone who's seen Hugh Jackman as Van Helsing can attest.