Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Sneak Peeks (Old thread)

[Betote]

But does every creature in the game have to support this play style? Can't there be a couple that support a different play style? Can't there be a few creatures that do just plain nasty that the DM has to use appropriately and require varied tactics from the players? I don't even care specifically about the allip, but I for one would like a few. Not many but a few.

Yes, there can be. And yes, there are. They're just creatures with CRs higher than the average party level.

I'm a hard DM. My players have to make up different tricks and tactics to face my creatures. And that's mostly because I use monsters above their level. That's the game's way of saying "this is a challenging creature".

So, if we want the CR system to work, monsters with the same CR should pose similar threats. And ability drain is not a CR 3 ability IMO.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

can we move the allip thing to a new thread? It really is derailing this one.

 

[malkav666]

Oh wow, the same few folks are still here complaining about the PF allip?

Jeez, if you don't like it then don't use it. If you are going to run PF and you want to use a draining allip as opposed to a damaging one, then just do it. Its not like its any amount of work on the DM to exchange the word damage for drain.

And to address another point from a previous poster about the players expecting an ability damage allip and getting one that drains, and then being annoyed about it. If I received a complaint from a player about me not playing a monster as a book presents it, I would laugh at them, and then ask them nicely to quit metagaming my moonstas. My players long ago learned that the DM can and will modify monsters. I have all of my monsters and encounters in a binder and the MM or whatever beastiary never comes out during play.

So either enjoy the new allip or loathe it. Its not so hard to revert it back to drain if damage flares up your carebear meter. Hell you could just add CMB score to the SRD allip and use that in your PFRPG game.

I don't personally think that an encounter that does wis damage vs wis drain is really played any diiferently. The only thing that is played different is the clean up, where the party fighting the draining monster will make a signifigant financial investment to continue, and the party facing damage will probably be out of the mix for a few days before continueing.

Don't worry all you allip drain lovers, there is still hope for a CR3 draining critter. Unless they have changed the ghost template, you can still pop that onto any CR 1 creature and have your jerk DM CR 3 creature that does drain (even more than an allip)

love,

malkav

 

[Stalker0]

So....how about that druid?

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

Well I liked the new druid...it has got no where near as much outcry as the bard...go fig

 

[Rolflyn]

The allip already requires varied tactics.

Yes it does. You missed the fact that I said I don't even specifically care about the allip, just about a few extraordinarly dangerous creature existing somewhere in the rules, somewhere.

You know what? Here. My vocal challenge to everyone who hates the new allip with such a passion:

Describe for me how players would fight the new allip compared/contrasted to how they would fight the old one. Show me where the difference is. Tell us what the huge disparity between the two is.

I don't hate the new allip, more the general direction of the changes that the allip represents. But I will take your challenge:

New Pathfinder Allip is in the crypt of the insane. Party comes up with plan: "Let's all charge in and attack. It can't get us all, and we can use Lesser Restoration to remove the wisdom damage when we have won." Response: "Cool, cast Magic Weapon on this sword."

3.5 wisdom drain Allip: Party comes up with plan: "Let's all charge in and attack." Response: "Are you nuts? That's a freaking allip behind there. Unless someone can drop it before it gets to us, I say we go another route." "Agreed."

Now you could use a CR 8 monster with wisdom drain instead of the CR 3 allip, but then the conversation would go:

"There's a monster we cannot defeat in the crypt. We simply cannot go there. The mage and archer couldn't possibly drop it before it got to us and tore us to shreds, draining away all our wisdom. No tactics in fact could possibly defeat it, I guess the DM wants us to go elsewhere."

 

[Rolflyn]

Returning to the druid, does anyone know if they changed the Natural Spell feat, or is it still a must have?

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Oh wow, the same few folks are still here complaining about the PF allip?

Jeez, if you don't like it then don't use it.

You know, that's the same damn thing we were saying BEFORE the change.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Returning to the druid, does anyone know if they changed the Natural Spell feat, or is it still a must have?

Beta was same 3.5, but I don't know if Gamma (final or whatever this is called) changed it.

The reason there is litle cry about Druid is: it wasn't weakened too much (in fact it was increased).
Bard was weakened (lowered duration of song per use why I'll never know). Before song lastsed 5 rds after each time stopped. Now you have to carefully conserve uses.

I don't hate the new allip, more the general direction of the changes that the allip represents. But I will take your challenge:

New Pathfinder Allip is in the crypt of the insane. Party comes up with plan: "Let's all charge in and attack. It can't get us all, and we can use Lesser Restoration to remove the wisdom damage when we have won." Response: "Cool, cast Magic Weapon on this sword."

3.5 wisdom drain Allip: Party comes up with plan: "Let's all charge in and attack." Response: "Are you nuts? That's a freaking allip behind there. Unless someone can drop it before it gets to us, I say we go another route." "Agreed."

Okay so if you know about the new allip it isn't that bad, but what about in random encounters?
It would be exactly the same: who prepares Magic weapon at 1st without prior knowledge that you need it. It only lasts 1 encounter (2 if you run to next some how).

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

You know, that's the same damn thing we were saying BEFORE the change.

Except now it is indeed a CR 3 challenge. Paizo stated they palnned to clear up the CR system and bring things in line with the rating. They did this can we move on now?