Why the beer hate? (Forked Thread: What are the no-goes...)

[Mistwell]

no way am I gonna game where people are smoking or doing worse...As for drugs, I'd prefer not to get a visit to the police station, thanks.

I do not know how it is like in Japan where you live, but in southern California where I live this is not an issue that could result in someone being arrested. Their activity is either actually or essentially legal (depending on whether or not they have a prescription). And again, it's not something I personally choose to do, and they tend to do it outside and away from me. I have never noticed it interfering with the game.

 

[Wicht]

Not gaming with people who drink is not necessarily forcing them not to game. Its forcing them not to game with you. I won't go bowling with people who are drinking either. I am in no way preventing them from bowling. They just aren't going to do it with me. And if they feel that their beer is more important than my company, that is their choice.

 

[Bumbles]

(okay, I'm not a drinker so the second category wouldn't apply, but substitute "eating" for "drinking" and I still can't see it).

There are many places where eating is not allowed, so if a GM told me "Please no snacks in the game room" I'd accept that. I have some relatives who are like that already. Me, I'll eat on the couch or the bed, I haven't sat down to eat at the dinner table in a long while. I keep all my important stuff there.

If I had a medical condition where I needed to consume something, I'd ask if we could have breaks for me to do that. If that wasn't possible, I'd be fine with that and not play.

 

[maddman75]

Isn't it obvious? It is to me, but I guess I'll explain.

I choose not to be around people who are drinking alcohol. This is taken as me forcing people to choose either be around me, or don't drink. Fair enough to me. Yet they think it's unfair for me to force people to make that choice.

Well, I think it's unfair to ask me to be around people who are drinking. It's like I'm being forced to go somewhere I don't enjoy.

If you can't understand from that, then I'm not sure what else I can say. You can think of it in a lot of ways, but what can I do to help you understand? Not agree, but understand. I don't agree that drinking makes for a better social experiences. But I understand that other people do. Yet it seems because I don't agree, and choose to avoid it, other people can't understand that, or even accept that I might have valid reasons. I recognized that problem long before this discussion came about, and chose to be silent, and put up with things. Then I learned better.

Accordingly, I choose not to be around people while drinking. Any people. You can think of it as prejudging people. I think of it as post-judging drinking and avoiding judging the people.

YMMV.

The problem is that you aren't giving any context. If this is at your house, then you saying "Hey, I don't like alcohol please don't bring any beer over." is you expressing your preferences. If the group is deciding where to play and you express a preference to the game store (where there's no beer) to the pub, again, that's your opinion. But if you're in my house and tell me that if I try to drink one of my beers in my own house you're leaving, that is passively-aggressively trying to control my behavior. It is also rude and antisocial.

The people I game with we don't generally have a fixed location for the game. We game wherever it makes the most sense to game. Usually at the GM's house, but we do bounce around. So this is the context where I consider your position. How does your group game? Tell me about the relationship between the people that you game with works.

Also, I tend to have my meetup groups go to a bar every now and then to weed out the control-freak teetotalers (those being the ones not just content not to drink themselves, but don't want anyone else to drink).

 

[rogueattorney]

The attitude that kind of throws me is the refusal to join a gaming group that doesn't adhere to one protocol or the other - I've seen people here say they wouldn't join a group because people were drinking, and others say they wouldn't join a group that didn't let them drink. I can't imagine either one (okay, I'm not a drinker so the second category wouldn't apply, but substitute "eating" for "drinking" and I still can't see it).

Well, for me, it would come down to why the person didn't want gaming at their session...

I don't want booze around my kids - perfectly reasonable.
I'm an observant Mormon/Muslm/etc. and I don't want booze in my house - perfectly reasonable.
Gaming is serious business and I don't want anyone to have a beer while playing in my game - uh, no thanks.

 

[Wicht]

Drinking a beer in and of itself is no more obnoxious than drinking soda.

Personally I can't stand the smell of beer so I would have to disagree with you.

Though I must say that I find those who think beer no different than soda to be extremely puzzling to me. Sugar is a mild stimulant. Alcohol is a toxic narcotic central nervous system depressant. They don't even seem to be in the same league to me, comparison wise.

 

[Mistwell]

I guess you didn't recognize the analogy, as I wouldn't necessarily fear that. (Fred Flintstone did though! You should watch that cartoon!) I would, however, fear them getting counterfeit money.

Perhaps a more common problem though, might be the issue of loaning money. If you've never seen it break up a friendship, or even severely damage one, then I would consider you quite lucky.

I agree with you on money. I just don't think it's a similar situation to alcohol.

There's a wargame tournament going on locally. It's been delayed for at least 3 weeks already. It's being delayed AGAIN because they have had so many complaints about things that went on that they feel they can't proceed until they have a meeting about it. A mandatory one. There's just too much griping for folks to be happy.

I think they would have been better off learning from the past tournaments where things like this happened, and setting the rules to avoid it. There have been people complaining about the frustration of it.

I refrained from telling them "I could have told you so" as I know that wouldn't have been productive.

Problems come up. If you head them up before they can become problems, they're usually not as bad.

Well, you have again taken a situation involving strangers and tried to apply it to a situation involving close friends and called them similar. This, after I pointed out already how they differ.

I understand completely a local wargame tournament banning alcohol or other things that are potentially a problem. That's because it is a meeting of strangers, and strangers of all ages at that.

I also understand banning drinking for a new group, or a group of people who are merely acquaintances rather than close friends, or a group of people that includes young players.

I do not understand the banning of alcohol among a group of close adult friends in a private game at someone's house.

That is the heart of the issue for me. If they are close adult friends, it either would never be an issue, or if it ever were an issue then adults should be able to work the problem out.

A pre-emptive ban seems odd to me, because it's not something I would do to close friends. Not unless I already knew it was an issue, in which case I am a good enough friend to talk to my friend about the problem. Trying to get around talking about it by instituting some equality policy regarding all drinking seems...not friendly to me, and frankly a bit passive aggressive. If my friend has an obvious problem, I take them aside and try to help - I don't pretend it's not an issue just for my own comfort.

I suspect (but again, I don't know it) that perhaps you are not gaming with all adult close-friends, but that some of them are acquaintances? That would definitely help me understand why you would rather not talk to them directly about the issue.

 

[Bumbles]

Ah. See, this is where you're going astray ... it's not "forcing people to choose" between you and a casual drink. It's forcing people to choose between gaming and a casual drink.

If anybody is thinking that, then that's their problem because they are so completely misunderstanding my words that I am beyond my capacity to clarify it to them since I have explicitly said that I do not care what you do in your life that doesn't involve me being around.

Do I really need to say it again? You can choose to game with me, or you can choose to go drink. You can't choose to drink and game with me. I don't care for the experience when it goes bad. And much like you and smokers, people have a hard time realizing when they do have a negative effect.

What can I do? I can avoid it. It works much better for me than trying to tell people that I think they've had enough.

 

[malkav666]

I have to say this is an interesting thread. In respect to the anti-smokers, I used to smoke cigarettes (I did so for over a decade actually) and sure I will admit they stink even for a couple of minutes after the fact. But there is no "smoke" radiating from them after about 15 seconds. Its kind of like standing up wind while cooking on the grill, you are gonna smell like hamburgers for a bit, but you are not letting off smoke, nor were you ever. So I have to argue that the scratchy throat from smelling a smoker seems to be more likely a psychosomatic reaction rather than an actual intolerance to "irritants". But that is OK. There are lots of folks who share that "allergy". And back when I was smoking and the game ended up at one of their houses. I would smoke one on the way over, and if we took a break for longer than half an hour I would find a place to have one off site. But I could live with not smoking in their house.

As for the drinking, I feel kind of the same way. If you are gonna host me at your place and let me sit on your furniture, and use your restrooms, and otherwise occupy your place of residence, and you don't want me to drink while doing so. That's cool, it's your house and I can live with that.

But if I am having the game at my house, and anyone wants to tell me my guests can't put on a smoking jacket (yes I have smoking jackets to deal with the problem of lingering smoke smells. My wife is one of those cigarettes are stinky types of folks and she got me one as a gift once, and let me tell firsthand you they work very well for that "you smell like a smokestack" issue) and step out in the smoking room and have a cigarette, or that I can't spark up a cigar and enjoy it with some good scotch if I so desire. Then I think it is safe to say that the offending person would be asked to leave my home and would likely not be invited back (although I would not be opposed to talking with them about it to find out what their deal was). I work too hard to have someone try and dictate what I can and cannot do in my own home (unless that dictator is my wife, as she can be kind of hot when she gets all bossy).


love,

malkav

 

[malkav666]

If anybody is thinking that, then that's their problem because they are so completely misunderstanding my words that I am beyond my capacity to clarify it to them since I have explicitly said that I do not care what you do in your life that doesn't involve me being around.

Do I really need to say it again? You can choose to game with me, or you can choose to go drink. You can't choose to drink and game with me. I don't care for the experience when it goes bad. And much like you and smokers, people have a hard time realizing when they do have a negative effect.

What can I do? I can avoid it. It works much better for me than trying to tell people that I think they've had enough.

Sorry for the double post, but out of curiosity, do you have a hard time finding gaming groups that will make the choices that you want in regards to drinking and smoking and whatever else?

In short, how long has your gaming group been together? Have they always been anti-substance?


love,

malkav