Why the beer hate? (Forked Thread: What are the no-goes...)

[Dausuul]

That's the thing that's surprised me about this thread. I don't think anyone's advocating getting wasted during games. It's just that people are objecting to games where any alcohol at all is involved. Whatever floats your boat is fine with me. It's just an attitude that is so foreign to me that I find it fascinating.

The attitude that kind of throws me is the refusal to join a gaming group that doesn't adhere to one protocol or the other - I've seen people here say they wouldn't join a group because people were drinking, and others say they wouldn't join a group that didn't let them drink. I can't imagine either one (okay, I'm not a drinker so the second category wouldn't apply, but substitute "eating" for "drinking" and I still can't see it).

 

[Charwoman Gene]

When discussing peoples preferences and reactions to social situations, it is important to understand that some people have mental issues that change the fundamental rules of social behavior. Sometimes people don't realize how abberant their thought process is until adulthood.

 

[Mistwell]

The attitude that kind of throws me is the refusal to join a gaming group that doesn't adhere to one protocol or the other - I've seen people here say they wouldn't join a group because people were drinking, and others say they wouldn't join a group that didn't let them drink. I can't imagine either one (okay, I'm not a drinker so the second category wouldn't apply, but substitute "eating" for "drinking" and I still can't see it).

I agree. I would game with any group where I will have fun. I don't care about their politics, religion, habits, atmosphere, language, food, or whatever - as long as it's a good DM and friendly group of people.

 

[Bumbles]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand. What is someone forcing on you by drinking a beer? (Not to mention "what is the previous poster forcing on you by asking about it?")

Isn't it obvious? It is to me, but I guess I'll explain.

I choose not to be around people who are drinking alcohol. This is taken as me forcing people to choose either not be around me, or don't drink and we'll play. Fair enough to me. There's no acrimony. Yet they think it's unfair for me to force people to make that choice.

Well, I think it's unfair to ask me to be around people who are drinking. It's like I'm being forced to go somewhere I don't enjoy.

If you can't understand from that, then I'm not sure what else I can say. You can think of it in a lot of ways, but what can I do to help you understand? Not agree, but understand. I don't agree that drinking makes for a better social experiences. But I understand that other people do. Yet it seems because I don't agree, and choose to avoid it, other people can't understand that, or even accept that I might have valid reasons. I recognized that problem long before this discussion came about, and chose to be silent, and put up with things. Then I learned better. I didn't get anywhere by being silent, the same as I didn't get anywhere by being in situations where people drank and became jerks. (And once again, no it's not everyone, some are jerks without the drinking, some aren't jerks with the drinking, but it's a non-zero number of people who are jerks after drinking)

Accordingly, I choose not to be around people while **they are** drinking. Any people. You can think of it as prejudging people. I think of it as post-judging drinking and avoiding judging the people.

YMMV.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Well, it seems a lot of this is friends vs players. If you are all friends and share similar habits, it would be fine, no matter what, but when starting out a new group, I think smoking, drinking and especially drug use does matter.

I might put up with drinking, though it would make me uncomfortable, but no way am I gonna game where people are smoking or doing worse. Smokers smell, and that is just how it is. The smoke does not magically disappear when the smoker stubs out the cigarette. But since smokers re always around smoke, it is understandable that they do not know this, though they should. It would seriously impact my enjoyment of the game, so it is a legitimate thing to consider in a gaming group. If everyone else is ok with it, then it would be me that leaves, of course.

As for drugs, I'd prefer not to get a visit to the police station, thanks.

 

[Ecce]

I'm not a drinker myself, but I game with fairly libertine people. Alcohol and other drugs aren't uncommon, but if anyone gets too drunk to play they're sleeping on the lawn. I'm generally fine with somebody drinking 2 beers during a game.

Aside from beer, opiates are banned at my table, but a few adderall or phentermine are generally encouraged (dramatic increase of focus under these stimulants, the house could be burning down and I'd be asking for an initiative roll).

 

[Obryn]

And for what it's worth, if we're talking about a 6 hour gaming session, an averaged sized man will usually be able to drink a whole six-pack without being significantly impaired.

And really - how many of those play D&D?

-O

 

[Bumbles]

Both a bank and a store involve dealing with strangers. But dealing with adult friends? Doesn't seem to hold up as an analogy, because it's issue with both the bank and the store because they don't really know you. Most people however do really know the people they game with. In fact, I bet you would not fear your friend is a potential counterfeiter.

I guess you didn't recognize the analogy, as I wouldn't necessarily fear that. (Fred Flintstone did though! You should watch that cartoon!) I would, however, fear them getting counterfeit money.

Perhaps a more common problem though, might be the issue of loaning money. If you've never seen it break up a friendship, or even severely damage one, then I would consider you quite lucky.

Take this thread for example:

totally random forum thread that came up when I was looking for the moral I've seen expressing it succintly.

There's some moral about it, but I'm blanking on it right now, so I'll just leave you with that thread.

There's many things I will do with friends. Deal with real money is not one of them. I would rather give you a present than give you a loan.

The best way to avoid problems with friends in my experience is to communicate about the actual problem if it arises, not a potential problem that may never come up.

There's a wargame tournament going on locally. It's been delayed for at least 3 weeks already. It's being delayed AGAIN because they have had so many complaints about things that went on that they feel they can't proceed until they have a meeting about it. A mandatory one. There's just too much griping for folks to be happy.

I think they would have been better off learning from the past tournaments where things like this happened, and setting the rules to avoid it. There have been people complaining about the frustration of it.

I refrained from telling them "I could have told you so" as I know that wouldn't have been productive.

Problems come up. If you head them up before they can become problems, they're usually not as bad.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I choose not to be around people who are drinking alcohol. This is taken as me forcing people to choose either be around me, or don't drink. Fair enough to me. Yet they think it's unfair for me to force people to make that choice.

Ah. See, this is where you're going astray ... it's not "forcing people to choose" between you and a casual drink. It's forcing people to choose between gaming and a casual drink. To the extent that the casual drink has no negative effect on you, or the game, insisting on the right to force that choice is particularly controlling behavior. (And, being something of a control freak myself, I'm familiar with the pathology.)

Don't get me wrong ... you have every right to be a control freak, when it comes to your home. Been there, do that on a regular basis.

But there is a difference between you deciding someone can't have a drink, when that behavior has no effect on you, and someone deciding they're going to have a drink in your presence, when that behavior has no effect on you. Only one of those is controlling behavior.

(BTW, the criterion for "has no effect on you" that I'm using is "if you weren't observing it occurring, you'd be completely unaware of it.")

As I said earlier, I find prior restraint in this case very peculiar, but I see where it's coming from now.)

 

[Obryn]

You can think of it as prejudging people. I think of it as post-judging drinking and avoiding judging the people.

It's still not 100% sensible IMO because drinking itself isn't a problematic behavior. Drinking a beer in and of itself is no more obnoxious than drinking soda. It's the behaviors which may be affected by the drinking that are.

One of your gamer buddies could have their water bottle filled with vodka. If it did not affect their behavior, why would that be a problem?

-O