Why the beer hate? (Forked Thread: What are the no-goes...)

[Bumbles]

I agree with you on money. I just don't think it's a similar situation to alcohol.

Well, I think it is. It leads to conflicts and arguments. This thread is a case in point.

Well, you have again taken a situation involving strangers and tried to apply it to a situation involving close friends and called them similar. This, after I pointed out already how they differ.

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. This involves people who not only know each other, but this same group of people had much the same thing happen before.

So please check your assumptions at the door. There might be some people unfamiliar to me, but the people behind the drama are the same people.

I don't know their position on alcohol (that's not an issue since the games take place in a public area of a store which prohibits it anyway), their problems are in other areas. Why you thought alcohol consumption was related to their problem I don't know, if I was unclear on that, I'm sorry, but I just didn't think you needed to hear the specifics since it was more the principle, dealing with problems you know have happened before, than the particulars which I see no reason to argue over.

They had problems with some things. They could have dealt with their problems in advance. They even talked about how they should. They didn't follow through.

Result? Complaints and trouble.

Pardon me for seeing that and saying...I'm glad I learned my lessons the last time. Hence my decision not to participate.

When it comes to drinking, again, I choose not to participate in games where it happens. I do not need the stress. Would it inevitably be a problem? Perhaps not, but it's a likely enough risk in my experience.

Why is this something you can't understand? Do you not believe I have experienced negative consequences from people's consumption of alcohol? That it's not been pleasant, but rather a hassle, to try to resolve that?

I suspect (but again, I don't know it) that perhaps you are not gaming with all adult close-friends, but that some of them are acquaintances? That would definitely help me understand why you would rather not talk to them directly about the issue.

Your suspicions are in error. I could know somebody for decades and REALLY NOT want to have to make this kind of talk. Why? Because I have done it before and it's not ended well. With my own family members. It didn't matter. Why would I want more of the same? Is this really something new to you?

 

[Bumbles]

But if I am having the game at my house, and anyone wants to tell me my guests can't put on a smoking jacket (yes I have smoking jackets to deal with the problem of lingering smoke smells.

You're thinking of it backwards. I am not saying that you can't smoke in your house. I'm saying I'm not going in your house if there is going to be smoking involved. Why is that a problem?

Sorry for the double post, but out of curiosity, do you have a hard time finding gaming groups that will make the choices that you want in regards to drinking and smoking and whatever else?

Hard time? No harder than I did before I put in these rules, and a lot of problems are removed. It's much easier when I can know up front that somebody smokes or drinks without me spending a few sessions, then a problem breaks out, and I'm left frustrated because I might have been having a good time, but now it's spoiled.

 

[ryryguy]

If you don't mind indulging me, here's one more hypothetical for Bumbles (and any other "no drinking with gaming" folks).

Let's say you have a good friend, whose judgement you trust, who has been in a gaming group for several years. The group is looking for a new player, and your friend asks you if you're interested.

Your friend's report on the game makes it sound great - it's high quality and the style of game you like. Time and location are very convenient. You don't know all the other players/DMs, though you're acquainted with some of them, and get along fine with them.

You ask if drinking is allowed. Your friend responds, "Well, it's not banned, but most of the people don't really drink. There is one player who has one beer (no more) every other session or so. I've never observed it to affect his gaming or behavior in any way."

Would you consider playing in this game? Or would the potential for "bad drinking", despite a solid two-year history of non-bad drinking, still be enough to make you turn it down?

 

[Mistwell]

Personally I can't stand the smell of beer so I would have to disagree with you.

A single glass of beer has so little smell that it's definitely your sensitivity to that scent rather than a common thing. I'd put that in the category of people who cannot stand the smell of deodorants or shampoos. They exist, but it's such a rarity that asking people to adapt to that oddity is not as polite as just trying to deal with your issue quietly.

Though I must say that I find those who think beer no different than soda to be extremely puzzling to me. Sugar is a mild stimulant. Alcohol is a toxic narcotic central nervous system depressant. They don't even seem to be in the same league to me, comparison wise.

Getting drunk can be a toxic narcotic. Drinking a single alcoholic beverage is not. In fact, drinking a single alcoholic beverage a day is considered by many doctors to be healthy, though they tend to want you to drink a single glass of red wine instead of beer since the positive effects seem to come up more frequently with red wine.

On the other hand, I know of no doctors who say that drinking regular, non-diet soda is a good thing. It's empty calories, and we live in a society where heart disease from consuming too many calories is one of the chief killers.

I don't fault people for drinking non-diet sodas (have at it), but it just boggles me to hear someone say that drinking a single alcoholic beverage is a toxic narcotic while drinking a single soda is "just" a mild stimulant. The damage to your body from a single soda tends to be worse than the damage to your body from a single glass of red wine, on average. It's only when people overconsume alcohol that it has a negative effect.

 

[malraux]

Though I must say that I find those who think beer no different than soda to be extremely puzzling to me. Sugar is a mild stimulant. Alcohol is a toxic narcotic central nervous system depressant. They don't even seem to be in the same league to me, comparison wise.

I think that its rather hyperbolic to toss around the toxic work. Caffeine is a psychoactive alkaloid. It too can be toxic. Hell, water is toxic. Its all about the dose. The alcohol content of a beer/glass of wine/shot of liquor isn't enough to result in particularly noticeable behavior changes.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

If anybody is thinking that, then that's their problem because they are so completely misunderstanding my words

No, I'm pretty sure I'm understanding you.

I have explicitly said that I do not care what you do in your life that doesn't involve me being around.

The fact that you even feel the need or desire to say this is pretty telling.

"You can indulge in <something that doesn't affect me> when I'm not around" is not a reasonable statement. It's the default state of adult relationships. Similarly, "You can indulge in <something> that <doesn't affect me>" is also the default state of adult relationships.

By contrast, "You can't indulge in <something> that <doesn't affect me> because someone who indulges in the future or has indulged in the past might or has affected me" is controlling behavior, and in the context of a leisure activity like a game between friendly acquaintances it's peculiar.

Sometimes there are good reasons to impose controlling behavior (prior restraint). All of these that I can think of involved concerns for public safety or the unknown factors of dealing with strangers. As far as i can tell, unless we're misunderstanding your situation, your controlling behavior is simply a matter of your enforcing your preference on someone else because "maybe."

The first step is admitting you have a problem. "Hi, I'm Jeff." "Hi, Jeff!" "I'm a control freak."

 

[Mistwell]

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. This involves people who not only know each other, but this same group of people had much the same thing happen before.

So please check your assumptions at the door. There might be some people unfamiliar to me, but the people behind the drama are the same people.

First you apologize for not being clear, and then you tell me to check my assumptions at the door?

You were not clear. You and I both agree you were not clear. Therefore, it's not my assumptions that should be checked at the door - they were fair assumptions. You said a local wargame "tournament". A "tournament" tends to be a thing played by strangers or acquaintances, not close friends. I also raised the issue of a distinction between close friends and strangers or acquaintances, and you did not mention they were close friends. It was a fair assumption to make. The error was in you not being clear they are close friends, after you knew it was the topic you were responding to.

I don't know their position on alcohol, their problems are in other areas. Why you thought it was related to their problem I don't know, if I was unclear on that, I'm sorry, but I just didn't think you needed to hear the specifics since it was more the principle, dealing with problems you know have happened before, than the particulars.

I thought it was alcohol because you raised it as a response to a thread about alcohol, and didn't specify otherwise.

They had problems with some things. They could have dealt with their problems in advance. They even talked about how they should. They didn't follow through.

Result? Complaints and trouble.

Pardon me for seeing that and saying...I'm glad I learned my lessons the last time. Hence my decision not to participate.

When it comes to drinking, again, I choose not to participate in games where it happens. I do not need the stress.



Your suspicions are in error. I could know somebody for decades and REALLY NOT want to have to make this kind of talk. Why? Because I have done it before and it's not ended well. With my own family members. It didn't matter. Why would I want more of the same? Is this really something new to you?

Yes, it's really something new to me. If any of my friends had a drinking problem that turned up at my table, I would feel comfortable enough to talk to them about it. I'd tell them that there will be no drinking at the table because of their issue with alcohol. (in as polite a way as I could) I would not pretend I was trying to equally apply some odd new rule for my own comfort level - I'd tell them what was going on. If they are a close friend, they will understand. To me, it's the adult way to do things.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Alcohol is a toxic narcotic central nervous system depressant.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

Or maybe... non-drinkers have close friends who are also adults and also non-drinkers. There is always that possibility too.

That pretty much sums up my situation.

Of all my friends only one drinks, and I think he stopped when he had kids.

Where I live tends to make that a non issue - outside of gaming friends, almost all of mine belong to the same church I do, and one of the precepts of our faith is no drinking.

Pretty easy for me to find myself in social situations with no one drinking.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

So, based on your previous post, if you were at someone's house and one guy drinks one Michelob Ultra, you'd reconsider whether to game with them anymore?

Yep. Absolutely would reconsider. Drinking socially is a complete nonstarter for me.

For me as well. If any alcohol is consumed, I really don't want any part of a social situation where drinking is involved.