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Why the beer hate? (Forked Thread: What are the no-goes...)

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Bumbles

First Post
No, I'm pretty sure I'm understanding you.

I'm pretty sure your representations as so off base that I do not feel that to be the case. Sorry. I've made my best attempt, and now I'll walk away.

The first step is admitting you have a problem. "Hi, I'm Jeff." "Hi, Jeff!" "I'm a control freak."

Well, you do seem to want to make things a psychological one, so I'll just pass on further discussions with you as I feel they'd be non-productive.

First you apologize for not being clear, and then you tell me to check my assumptions at the door?

Well, that's what they say about assumptions, they make an ass out of you and me.

Instead of arguing over who was at fault, why don't we check those problems, and stick with the real issue? This group, of people who know each other well enough to be familiar with each other and who did know it was going to be a problem, chose to do nothing about it, and now have a worse problem, as now folks have been put through the conflict when they could have avoided it.

If they'd acted to prevent it in the first place, they wouldn't be in the mess. And no, it wasn't the random people who are not close to each other that's at the root of it. It's people who know each other and who know they've had these problems before. They didn't learn.

Just like I've had a hard time learning that some disagreements just can't be resolved. This seems to be one of them, so before it gets worse, I'll bow out. I am not able to communicate well enough with you, and my experiences seem to be far too divergent. It happens. Maybe somebody else can do better than I can.
 

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Bumbles

First Post
Where I live tends to make that a non issue - outside of gaming friends, almost all of mine belong to the same church I do, and one of the precepts of our faith is no drinking.

Pretty easy for me to find myself in social situations with no one drinking.

Some of us go to Church for just that reason. And I have a friend who has a theory that the Rotary Club opening up to members of both genders (I think that was the club's name, it may be some other), has lead to more affairs since people get together and see that they share the same community values, and look to trade up from their spouses.

He has a lot of interesting theories.
 


Sorry for the double post, but out of curiosity, do you have a hard time finding gaming groups that will make the choices that you want in regards to drinking and smoking and whatever else?

In short, how long has your gaming group been together? Have they always been anti-substance?


love,

malkav

I'll answer for myself (being on the same side of the question as Bumbles) -
Our group has been together (core 3 anyway) for 17 years. The current group (aside from the new guy that joined about a year ago) has been together for at least 10.

The wife and I host, so rules on smoking and drinking are set by us (so no to either one). We've never had a problem keeping a full group together.
 

Jack99

Adventurer
You're a smoker, right?
Yeah baby! Well, at least for another week. I decided that 20 years was enough and I should do something to ensure that I get to see my kids get married, get children etc. Doesn't change much though, my comments are based on my wife's knowledge. She happens to be a non-smoker that works with these things, so she should know.
Smokers are nearly always oblivious to the lingering effects of the habit. (As someone already noted, on top of my having observed it earlier.)

It's no more a "medical condition" than the results from getting squirted in the eye with habanero juice are from a "medical condition." Smoke is an irritant. Unlike habanero juice, it travels through the air, and it's severe enough to have an effect in small amount. (Such as what lingers on a smoker.)
I think most of us know. Funny thing about being a smoker, we are usually around smoke a lot more than you guys, and we observe. For example, people who know I smoke and see me step out and smoke often comment it afterwards, but others, who do not know, rarely comment it. Could there be something psychological going on there? Perhaps, perhaps not.

So, you'd expect us to deal with you wanting to take a break? No thanks! Even if it's a normal break (some groups do that, some don't), if it's my property, I've had enough trouble with smokers leaving their litter behind that I'm simply not going to deal with it any more. I do not want to clean up your butts. I do not want to put out the fire you started by dropping your lit butt into my can of leaves. I do not want to replace the cushions in the bench because you let the hot end of your cigarette touch it. I don't even want to make you pay to replace them. I do not want to smell the stink you left behind. I do not want to have problems breathing because that cloud of smoke blew in my face.
It'd be one thing if I didn't have these problems. But I do. Solution? No smoking on my property. If the group is having a break, and you have time to go to the store, and want to smoke while you're on the road, fair enough, but if that cloud still lingers around you, don't be surprised if it becomes a problem.
Your issue is not smokers, but idiots who apparently can't behave properly. I have a hard time believing that adults would behave as you describe.

And if you don't think I have actually had those problems, well, then that's your perspective, I doubt I can convince you of it. I know a lot of smokers can't even realize how badly they stink, or make others stink, till they stop doing it. I have had people quit smoking, then go into someone's house who hadn't quit, and tell me that I was right, it does smell.
Noone has said that smoke doesn't smell, especially if you are in the house of someone who smokes inside. We are talking about people smoking outside, there is a huge difference. I also think you are deluding yourself if you think most well-educated adults who smoke do not realize the smell etc. But as long as you smoke outside, the issue is not very big. Sure, some may be oversensitive, but that's no different that my wife not being able to stand within 10' of her own sister when she has put on perfume...

Count me among those who disagree with this. I can smell the cigarette smoke on my friends when they come back inside and sit down across the gaming table. It doesn't trigger any kind of respiratory reaction for me, and it fades after a minute or so, but it's quite noticeable.
You said it yourself. It fades quite quickly. Rookie smokers learn eventually to wait another minute or two before they enter whatever place they are smoking outside, to eliminate/minimize any possible discomfort others may have with the smell.

You say that like it's a bad thing.
Lol..
 

Would you consider playing in this game? Or would the potential for "bad drinking", despite a solid two-year history of non-bad drinking, still be enough to make you turn it down?

Nope I wouldn't join.

That would be enough for me not to join that game. It isn't the possible bad effects of alcohol I am avoiding, but the very existence & consumption of it in a social situation I am in (I tend to not go to restaurants that offer alcohol on the menu - where I live there a number that do not).
 

Bumbles

First Post
Your issue is not smokers, but idiots who apparently can't behave properly. I have a hard time believing that adults would behave as you describe.

They're old enough to smoke legally. By law, they're adults. Yes, I know, and I agree with you that the ultimate root of the problem is they're idiots who can't behave properly, but what I can do? I realized a long time ago I can't make some people behave better.

I did, however, realize that I can disallow certain behaviors so they effectively don't become a problem for me when I game, either in my own home or by avoiding them in somebody else's.

Some people are decent enough players that I don't mind gaming with them, but they're thoughtless in other ways. Go figure.
 
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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
But if you're in my house and tell me that if I try to drink one of my beers in my own house you're leaving, that is passively-aggressively trying to control my behavior.

Lots of folks around here misuse that term a great deal.

No, it is not passive-aggressive. Very specifically it is not, because it is not at all passive. If, every time you took a sip of the beer, he sighed loudly and rolled his eyes, but didn't tell you what the problem was, that would be passive-aggressive. In a passive-aggressive behavior, the offender acts in such a way as you have to guess why he or she is doing it.

If he steps up and directly tells you what the problem is, or otherwise willfully takes action to change the situation himself (like leaving), it is not passive-aggressive.

It is also not necessarily an attempt to control your behavior. It is an attempt to control his situation, and I can hardly say he doesn't have the right to do that, so long as he isn't harming anyone. He has two basic choices available to change his situation - change your behavior or leave.

As a host, I'd generally prefer my guests let me know there's a problem before they pick up and leave, so that I have the option to change the situation if I desire to.

It is also rude and antisocial.

My personal opinion is that you're misusing those terms as well, but they are not so clearly defined that it is easily proven so.
 
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Charwoman Gene

Adventurer
Accordingly, I choose not to be around people while drinking.

Drinking alone is a sign of alcoholism. Coupled with your refusal to be around other people who choose to drink has be very worried for you. Drinking socially is one thing, secret binging outside the soght of others while putting up a front of teetotalling sounds like a recipe for disaster. Unfoirtunately, a D&D website isn;t the best place to get help.

Folks, let's not make insulting insinuations, eh? Tacky and inappropriate. Not cool. ~ PCat
 
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ryryguy

First Post
Nope I wouldn't join.

That would be enough for me not to join that game. It isn't the possible bad effects of alcohol I am avoiding, but the very existence & consumption of it in a social situation I am in (I tend to not go to restaurants that offer alcohol on the menu - where I live there a number that do not).

Thanks for the answer, Lord Mhoram. It makes sense if your objection is religiously based.

I guess I'm more curious for the case where it is the potential for disruption that's the issue. Does a history of non-disruption matter, or is any risk, no matter how slight, intolerable?
 

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