Forked Thread: Torchwood - Children of Earth (Spoilers)

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Hah, I made a good prediction on the ending! They indeed used the connections to the child against the aliens!

Of course I didn't expect that Jack had to sacrifice his own grandson. I was overall pretty satisfied. I am not sure how much really got "back to usual", but i noticed that this scenario can a lot be easier concealed than something like Daleks and Cybermen attacking in London or Earth being teleported away.

The aliens were only visible in the Thames House. The children acted strangely. The military hordes some children to "inoculate" them. A middle man bureaucrat kills his family and himself (BTW, I found this character to be constantly interesting and really liked his storyline). What did really happen? Unless Torchwood opens its "archives", we might never now the real truth. And while all what has happened is shocking, actually losing this children to the aliens would have had an entirely different impact...

Of course, I'd prefer if there was more turmoil visible, but then we got only 5 days of the scenario...

Jack running away... I can see it, and I can't. In the end, for an immortal being that might sometimes even have access to time travel technology, running away and coming back is not that hard. And taking a 10 year vacation from losing his boyfriend and his grandson... Well, why not.

 

[Cergorach]

Gwen crying => She is pregnant, have you ever met pregnant women, half of them are emotionally unstable as hell ;-) (If your pregnant and reading this, your of course part of the other half)

Jack's grandson => It wasn't like they had any other kid handy. Jack is immortal, he's been around for a while and has seen a lot of things and has experienced a lot of agonizing deaths. That he's as sane as he currently is, is a small miracle. He's never been really close to his (grand) children and I got the distinct impression that they are 'mistakes'. The flashback to 1965 already showed us that he can be a really cold customer that weighs the numbers. Simply said, life and death mean something very different to Jack then to the rest of humanity.

Jack vs. Aliens: In 1965 they traded a cure for a plague for 12 children, that could very well be construed as a trade instead of 'tribute'. And 12 children is pretty insignificant to the number of folks that have died/disappeared due to aliens (etc.), so burying it might have been the political thing to do (if you want British politics watch a few episodes of Judge John Deed). It isn't the first time that Aliens have threatened earth, but I suspect that the ease with which a (very fast and deadly) biological agent was introduced into a secure facility might have been shocking (not to mention the instantaneous manipulation of electronic system and physical devices like the doors). Jack was a bit shell shocked after that after another lovers death (I suspect he won't ever get used to that), and he did eventually come up with a 'backup' plan.

Overall I find Torchwood a bit to gritty for my tastes, it does show well that The Doctor has some kind of 'touch' that no earth based organization can duplicate (not UNIT, not Torchwood). Making Doctor Who all the more special.

Questions: Is this the end of Torchwood season 3 of the end of the entire series? Why was the season so darned short? And where is my Who fix???

 

[Morrus]

One thing that kept striking me throughout this: I don't know what the plans are for Jack in the Whoniverse, but The Doctor will never forgive him for the actions he took. It would be interesting to see if they explore this in Doctor Who next year - but The Doctor absolutely would not sacrifice a child for the good of the many.

Second, of course - the whole Whoniverse thing is cool and all, but if you're gonna mention The Doctor in Torchwood, you need a damn good explanation as to why nobody called him! At least say they tried and got no answer. Because it;'s well established he can be phoned - originally by Martha (yes, it IS OK to interrupt her honeymoon at this point), and later by pretty much everyone who had the number in Journey's End. You can't establish these combined universe precendents and then just ignore them. Heck, he's gonna turn up for two epsiodes of The Sarah Jane Adventures to attend her wedding, but not for this?

If you have the most powerful man in not just the world, but quite possibly the universe, on your side then you're gonna try to contact him at least. I don't buy the throwaway Gwen video - are we really supposed to believe that The Doctor of all people isn't saving us because he's decided we're not worth saving? Nonsense. He's not even capable of such a thought.

And finally - RTD has an anti-US agenda, I think. He always portrays Americans as overbearing asses for some reason. There's something personal there, and it's jarring. I don't believe for a second that high level politics works like that or that some random American general would talk to the PM in that way.

The only thing I'm sure of - Jack and The Doctor cannot remain friends now. He would not condone the choices made, and he would always find another way. Jack has become what The Doctor despises.

 

[Cergorach]

The only thing I'm sure of - Jack and The Doctor cannot remain friends now. He would not condone the choices made, and he would always find another way. Jack has become what The Doctor despises.

I seriously doubt that Jack is going to tell anyone of what he did without some serious motivation (like another incursion by the 456). It's not like the Doctor tells everthing about what he's done in the time war (we've gotten hints though).

The Doctor left his phone in the Tardis ;-)

 

[MarkB]

What killed the last episode for me was that Jack ended up making exactly the same transaction the Government were going to. Killing one child to save millions is exactly the same in principle as sacrificing millions of children to save billions.

Torchwood were working on the right solution from the start, trying to analyse the signal and its effects on children. If they'd just stuck to that plan once the team got back together, using Clem as their interface rather than a child, instead of trying to confront the aliens with nothing to back up their words, they'd probably have had a full-fledged counter worked out by the end of Day 4, and by using the frequency they could've spoken directly to the 456 without ever getting near Thames House.

In the end, it all just feels like a self-justifying tirade against authority, and I honestly can't see what anyone could take away from that final episode that would make them want to come back for more.

 

[Mallus]

What killed the last episode for me was that Jack ended up making exactly the same transaction the Government were going to. Killing one child to save millions is exactly the same in principle as sacrificing millions of children to save billions.

Yes. And that's exactly why I preferred this episode to any other of RTD's deus ex machina-steeped finales. This time the deus had a cost.

In the end, it all just feels like a self-justifying tirade against authority, and I honestly can't see what anyone could take away from that final episode that would make them want to come back for more.

It would have been an insufferably smug tirade against authority if there had been some perfect, happy, sacrifice-free solution. How anti-authoritarian can the piece be when it had the protagonist and the authorities choose the same thing?

Jack's both a hero and monster, not so different from Frobisher, all told. Kudos to RTD for making that his send off.

But you are right. I don't want to see anymore more of Captain Jack Harkness. Anything else would spoil the awesome.

 

[Fast Learner]

I realized in the final two parts that the real problem I've had with Torchwood, the thing that has made it less pleasurable for me more than anything else isn't the occassional bouts of stupidity the characters seem to have, and isn't the bizarre and massively changing relationship between Torchwood and the UK government, though those things aren't ideal. The thing that just doesn't click well enough for me, and consistently so, is The Unbearable Lightness of Being Captain Jack Harkness.

 

[Krug]

Well this was the first time I've been exposed to Torchwood, and I thought Children of Earth was mind-blowing. Here was a series that was willling to tear itself to shreds, where folks look real instead of the whole cast looking like it stepped out of GQ, and while I thought the ending could have been done better, it was emotionally heart-wrenching. Sure one might fault it, but I appplaud it for it's audacity. Yes Ianto and the kid did not have to die, but if not, Harkness would not be compelled to leave this planet.

Frankly, I thought it was brilliant.

 

[Viking Bastard]

I thought it was great. Absolutely.

I loved how, after Torchwood took control of the government and stood up to the 456, the 456 kicked their arses. And I can't really think of a better ending than Jack's sacrifice. That was a real punch to the stomach, especially because of how the kid trusted him unconditionally. I think the kid sacrificing himself would've zapped all weight from that ending.

I especially found the character of Frobisher heart-wrenching.

I really disliked the PM as a character, though, because while I found the rest of the governmental characters believable, just as I might imagine people in their positions would react, he developed a case of mustache twirling.

 

[nerfherder]

I liked the ending (although I wish the plan hadn't just been cooked up in the last 15 minutes). Earth fighting back and sacrificing one of their own was like standing up to a bully/dictator/terrorist, rather than capitulating like the government wanted.

Yeah, I didn't get the whole thing about the US general taking control, and I thought the reason for trying to destroy Torchwood was flimsy - these were the guys who helped out the government in the same situation in the past and are the experts in this field.

Peter Capaldi was excellent as Frobisher, and his ending was tragic. Probably the best part of the whole series.