Why doesn't WotC license older editions?

[Reynard]

Reynard already inferred someone else's comment about 4e being a cash grab. It's already begun.

Yes, yes I did. If you go back and read the original comment, you can easily se why.

However, in the interest of actually engaging in real discussion, let's think of it this way: is a "cash grab" the only reason to make a new edition? Doug seems to think so. Me? I'm not so sure. There may be other motivations.

But, if we're going to talk "cash grabs" as motivation for anything a company does, we have to wonder, then, why we didn't see an expensive, slip-cased collectors edition of AD&D 1E at the 30th anniversary of said game a couple years back. It certainly would have sold, especially if it was essentially "untouched" with the original covers. It probably could have commanded $100 to $150 for the set, with a limited print run (and then be going for $300+ on ebay shortly thereafter). Those number, of course, are right out of my gazebo, but the point is that WotC could have done it and made a profit for very limited work.

So, why not?

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Reprinting 1e can do nothing but make money for WOTC. Problem is, it won't make MUCH money. Suppose it costs $100 to reprint 1e (I'm keeping the numbers small to make the math easier) and WOTC makes $110. That's a 10% return for minimal effort. I personally think they'd make much more money off 1e. Nothing compared to 4e, surely, but a sale is a sale.Take the old 1e books, reprint them, ship them off to a distributor. Players of older editions will be VERY happy, some players who have never played or even heard of 1e will inevitably pick it up, even if they never play the game. 4e players might pick it up in addition to 4e, I doubt many 4e players will suddenly drop 4e and play 1e exclusively. The old school players will be happy and not so down on WOTC because they feel like they've been left behind. Happy customers are return customers. It's a win/win situation. I really don't see a resurgence of AD&D competing with 4e at all.

 

[Mistwell]

Yes, yes I did. If you go back and read the original comment, you can easily se why.

However, in the interest of actually engaging in real discussion, let's think of it this way: is a "cash grab" the only reason to make a new edition? Doug seems to think so. Me? I'm not so sure. There may be other motivations.

Maybe your definition of "cash grab" and mine are different.

Doug said "If 3e was making decent money for WotC there would never have been a 4e." (emphasis added).

I do not view saying "decent money" as the same as "cash grab". "Cash grab" implies to me taking a lot of quick money for very short term gain. Slowly making decent money from something does not equate with making a "cash grab" to me. So, why did you infer "cash grab" into what Doug said?

 

[Maggan]

Nothing compared to 4e, surely, but a sale is a sale.

The problem with this is that if WotC spends 100 dollars to make 110 dollars by reprinting AD&D, they could instead have spent 100 dollars and made 115 by printing more D&D4e books, given the market conditions currently in place.

A sale is a sale, but if one sale brings in 10 dollar profit, and the other 15 dollars, for the same amount of money spent, then WotC will go for the 15 dollars.

IMO and all that.

/M

 

[JRRNeiklot]

The problem with this is that if WotC spends 100 dollars to make 110 dollars by reprinting AD&D, they could instead have spent 100 dollars and made 115 by printing more D&D4e books, given the market conditions currently in place.

A sale is a sale, but if one sale brings in 10 dollar profit, and the other 15 dollars, for the same amount of money spent, then WotC will go for the 15 dollars.

IMO and all that.

/M

Sure, but why can't they do both? Very few people will buy 1e INSTEAD OF 4e. Some will buy both, some will buy only 1e, but most of those will probably not buy 4e anyway. And 4e is still there for those who only want 4e.

 

[coyote6]

But, if we're going to talk "cash grabs" as motivation for anything a company does, we have to wonder, then, why we didn't see an expensive, slip-cased collectors edition of AD&D 1E at the 30th anniversary of said game a couple years back. It certainly would have sold, especially if it was essentially "untouched" with the original covers. It probably could have commanded $100 to $150 for the set, with a limited print run (and then be going for $300+ on ebay shortly thereafter). Those number, of course, are right out of my gazebo, but the point is that WotC could have done it and made a profit for very limited work.

So, why not?

At a guess, printing books today is not done the way it was years ago. WotC might not have (good) electronic files (PDFs or Quark or whatever their layout software is) of the 1e books to ship to a printer to have new books printed, and they might not be able to find a printer that could handle (at a reasonable cost) any old camera-ready copies WotC might have (if they have any at all). IIRC, the PDFs they did of the 1e books were all scans they OCRd and corrected; they couldn't send those to a printer. Thus, reprinting the books might not be a quick or easy process at all.

I believe SJGames has said one reason all their old books (GURPS, Car Wars, Ogre, etc.) weren't quickly available as PDFs is that they don't *have* electronic copies of all of the books. Some never had them; some had all copies lost (mislaid, damaged backup media, etc.), and some they had, but they weren't compatible with modern software & not easily converted. Thus, some of the books have to be recreated or scanned & OCR'd, which takes a while (especially to do right -- some of the old AD&D PDFs were terrible scans). WotC might be in the same situation with older TSR material.

And that's besides the entirely feasible prospect that they (WotC) just didn't want to (or didn't think to) make 'em available, or didn't think it would be sufficiently profitable (especially if it was a considerable effort).

 

[coyote6]

Sure, but why can't they do both?

That's easy; they don't have unlimited money to print books. It would take time and effort (see my previous post as to why it might be a significant amount) to reprint old material; that time and effort (which is to say, money) would have to come from somewhere, and would probably take away from another project. If that other project would make them *more* money for the same investment, they will logically go with the other project.

Green Ronin hasn't reprinted Ultimate Power, despite a seemingly decent demand (to judge from the number of "why can't I get UP" threads on various message boards), because they are spending the cash it would take to print a full-color hardcover like UP on other expensive-to-print games. WotC has much bigger budgets than GR, but they aren't unlimited; ultimately, it's a zero-sum game -- publishing one thing means there are other things you can't publish.

 

[Bumbles]

I still wonder how many people bought the special collector's PHB and how much profit that WOTC made on them.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

If only there were some kind of electronic software that could allow people to buy the book without you having to physically print it. Instead, they could just...I dunno, download it. All the profit and none of the costs!

Man, that would be super awesome.

 

[Bumbles]

If only there were some kind of electronic software that could allow people to buy the book without you having to physically print it. Instead, they could just...I dunno, download it. All the profit and none of the costs!

Well, there are problems with that, which have been mentioned above. Namely, that for older material, there's no electronic copy available so they'd have to pay the cost of making one.