Proposal: Divine Power

[JoeNotCharles]

I think you should wait a bit before drawing any conclusions... by about fight 3 you should be noticing a pattern...

 

[ryryguy]

In my case it's based on about a dozen fights.

That's still not a huge sample, and other people's experiences might differ. But it does show that avengers aren't always going to be Oathing multiple targets as a matter of course.

 

[Tomalak]

The Hero of the Faith question seems to have taken over this thread, so I've forked this thread HERE: http://www.enworld.org/forum/living...ken-just-unbalanced-need-meds-you-decide.html.

I figure move the HotF discussion there, so the rest of the book can be discussed here. I personally haven't seen anything unbalanced in the first 4 chapters of the book, though I'd like to play the pacifist cleric sometime. What do you guys think?

 

[Tinwe]

Since no one else has pointed it out yet, allow me:

Astral Seal Cleric Attack 1You outline your enemy with the silver glow of the Astral Sea, and its healing light bathes your friend.
At-Will

Divine, Healing, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom +2 vs. Reflex
Hit: Until the end of your next turn, the target takes a –2 penalty to all defenses. The next ally who hits it before the end of your next turn regains hit points equal to 2 + your Charisma modifier.

At level 1 in EnWorld, this heals 10 points a turn (more than a healing surge) reliably (75% or more of all turns) , without spending a healing surge. This circumvents a primary pacing method for DMs- that of expending healing surges.


It gets worse:

Potent Restorables Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Artificer
Benefit: Your healing powers restore 2 extra hit points. The extra hit points increase to 3 at 6th level, to 4 at 11th level, to 5 at 16th level, to 6 at 21st level, and to 7 at 26th level.

The cleric above can MC Artificer and at level 2 he'll be healing 12 hp reliably without spending a healing surge. As you might expect, this stacking gets worse as levels increase. I whipped up a level 14 cleric for a live 1-shot adventure who is dropping 22 free healing per round (and getting 5 temp hp himself), and surge + 9d6 +20 (+4 to all defenses + saving throw) when he uses Healing Word.


(Stacking heals like this may not be a bad thing... I know there's a couple DMs out there whos players are drooling on their keyboards right now )

 

[TwoHeadsBarking]

Since no one else has pointed it out yet, allow me:
At level 1 in EnWorld, this heals 10 points a turn (more than a healing surge) reliably (75% or more of all turns) , without spending a healing surge. This circumvents a primary pacing method for DMs- that of expending healing surges.

Three things. First, I would guess that in practice it's not as reliable as you say. The cleric needs to hit, and then his friend needs to hit. Even with the bonuses, you can't guarantee that anyone's going to get healed. And if the cleric's friend misses, and no one else is in position to take advantage of it, then it's wasted. Second, the cleric didn't deal any damage. This is actually pretty significant, because it could mean that the battle is likely to drag on longer as a result. Third, starting with 18 Wis and Cha is pretty demanding for any non-Kalashtar. It takes 25 points to raise one score to 18 and a second to 16, so the rest of their stat line, along with their Reflex and Fort, is going to suck.

 

[EvolutionKB]

THB read my mind.

 

[nerdytenor]

Gotta agree. While Astral Seal has huge healing potential, the lack of any damage is a huge downside, so on balance it seems, er, balanced.

Not that I have any characters that might take this power.

No, not at all.

Nope.

Uh uh.

OK, maybe.

 

[Tinwe]

First, I would guess that in practice it's not as reliable as you say. The cleric needs to hit, and then his friend needs to hit.

You're right. I mistakenly used the numbers that I worked out for the 1-shot cleric that I mentioned. At level 1, it's a 65% chance for the cleric to hit the average defense of 14. It's then a 65% chance per attack to heal someone.

Even with the bonuses, you can't guarantee that anyone's going to get healed. And if the cleric's friend misses, and no one else is in position to take advantage of it, then it's wasted.

Well, yes, but let's assume the cleric possesses a modicum of intelligence and uses Seal to keep melee topped off, and Healing Word for actual life or death saves.

Second, the cleric didn't deal any damage. This is actually pretty significant, because it could mean that the battle is likely to drag on longer as a result.

I'm not sure what kind of campaigns you're playing in where the clerics are doing crazy damage. This ability makes it not matter how long the fight "drags on", because it's handing out constant healing as an at-will. In addition, it makes it easier for everyone to hit. After you hit once, you gain the bonus to hit as well if needed, making the cycle even easier to maintain.

Third, starting with 18 Wis and Cha is pretty demanding for any non-Kalashtar. It takes 25 points to raise one score to 18 and a second to 16, so the rest of their stat line, along with their Reflex and Fort, is going to suck.

True, but that doesn't negate the other points.

 

[CaBaNa]

not this too...

it's the only decent at will for a pacifist cleric...

 

[Kalidrev]

Here's another thing to think about. Anyone who plays as a cleric like that, is going to have a DM with smart monsters/npcs who are going to target the CRAP outta that cleric and bring him down. No more cleric, no more free healing lol. Granted this is a generalization and not a guarantee of cleric pincushon-ness.