4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Fieari mate!

Here's a tangent for you.

In some studies recently, I came across the term Rephaim, which could be:

*Krusty cackles maniacally to himself knowing full well the term Rephaim since they are detailed in the first Gods & Monsters - Astral Plane: Epic Tier book*

A) A race of giants

Indeed. My Giant-fu is awesome (lots of giantish research given how much of a 'push' they are getting in the new edition).

B) A synonym for Nephilim

I prefer to think of Nephilim as something else...so its just as well they are also in the same book.

C) A type of ghost residing in the land of the dead

Spooky.

Now, individually, none of those definitions are anything particularly interesting as far as the handbook goes, but if you put them together, you get a Giant Undead Half-Angel. And that sounds cool to me.

I was saving the giant undead half-angels for another book.

You even have an exemplar, in the form of "Og", an antediluvian Rephite who, according to Jewish folklore, clung to the outside of Noah's ark for the entire duration and thus survived. Later on, he's supposed to be the "fugitive" who informs Abraham that Lot has been taken by an enemy army, and is made nigh-immortal/invincible (beyond his normal status as a Rephite) as a reward... and yet because he was motivated by the desire to have Abraham killed in the war, he was also cursed to fall to one of Abraham's descendants thousands of years later.

That's a campaign hook if I ever saw one.

Already have Og pencilled in somewhere else.

...it is a cool hook though.

A good question might be if titans > giants, who/what are > titans? Or for that matter...

Giants < Titans < ? < ? < ? < ? =

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

Okay I think I solved the Mega/Giga/Tera monster problem and I have those about as simple as possible.

However, in deconstructing the Tarrasque as part of that work, is it just me or does it have a number of mistakes in the stat block?

Shouldn't its Fortitude Defense be 51 (instead of 49)?*
Shouldn't its Reflex Defense be 41 (instead of 38)?*
Shouldn't its Will Defense be 39 (instead of 32)?*
Shouldn't its Attack vs. AC be 33 (instead of 34)?

*Assuming AC, Fortitude and Will are the scores which get the Solo Monsters +2 bonus.

Don't think I am missing anything, but just wanting a second opinion since I am still relatively new to the whole 4E stat block construction method.

 

[Alzrius]

I thought I had added in that at best you were only meant to have 18 SLA total (In effect representing the two portfolios levels 1-9). Although that wouldn't necessarily count added SLA from divinity templates.

There's nothing like that in your CR construction system. It says that you can have a number of spell-like abilities less than or equal to your total Hit Dice, staggered by level. Table 3-7 shows this, with a 20 HD monster having 20 SLA's, for example.

At this point I am working out the numerical breakdown of the pdf percentages. I'll probably give 30% of the 'writing'* profits to whomever is doing the conversion to 3.5E (or more depending upon the extent of the work involved). So if that was both you and Alzrius we could just divide the 30% of the writing profits by page count between who does what.

Does that sound fair to both of you?

I'm fine with that, though I think splitting up the profits is rather premature considering how far along all of this is.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

There's nothing like that in your CR construction system. It says that you can have a number of spell-like abilities less than or equal to your total Hit Dice, staggered by level. Table 3-7 shows this, with a 20 HD monster having 20 SLA's, for example.

Okay, my mistake. The limit was meant to be:

20, not counting bonus SLA from templates (including divinity templates).

This mimics the idea of two portfolios with spell levels 0-9.

Two Epic Spells (as SLA) would have been added if applicable (as in high enough level).

I'm fine with that, though I think splitting up the profits is rather premature considering how far along all of this is.

True, but I have had to think of these things as I can't afford to pay people up front (such as artists) so I need to have a good idea of how things will be divided.

 

[Axolotl]

Hey UK!

I've been away for a while and was wondering how your current plans for 4th Edition are progressing?

By the way something seems to be wrong with your website, is that just me or is it a major problem?

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

A good question might be if titans > giants, who/what are > titans? Or for that matter...

Giants < Titans < ? < ? < ? < ? =

I would suggest Jotuns or Jotunns (spelling varies - the enemies of the gods from Norse Mythology), and Gegeneis ("Earth-born" - another name for the Greek Gigantes).

Perhaps Jotunns could be low immortal (hero/quasi/demi-deity ranked) giants, and Gegeneis could be high immortal (lesser/intermediate/greater deity ranked) giants.

For sidereal ranked giants, possibly Aloadai? The Aloadai were a pair of giants from Greek mythology who challenged the gods at 9 years old, imprisoning Ares, and were defeated, but they would have won if they had waited until their full growth. 2 giants vs. 12 olympian gods (and probably other gods too) seems like it would put them at Elder God level.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

I got back yesterday evening and tried multiple times to open ENWorld and the site was just too slow. It seems I pretty much have to limit my ENWorld time to morning-afternoon (for me). I'm guessing that as soon as America wakes up the whole thing (for me) grinds to a halt.

Hey UK!

Howdy Axolotl mate!

I've been away for a while and was wondering how your current plans for 4th Edition are progressing?

Well, the commissioned art for the Vampire Bestiary is almost complete. But I will still need to do 10 illustrations myself. I should *touch wood* be able to get at the very least one illustration done per week, hopefully I can get two done some weeks. So I think about 8 weeks for the book to be completed. Each entry still needs some work (as regards the writing), but nothing too extensive.

I'll also try and sort out the first few Legendary Tier Class Extensions and Portfolios (4E), so that soon after I release the Vampire Bestiary I can start releasing the class extensions and portfolios as small pdfs. The Fighter Class extension (Levels 31-40) and the Fire Portfolio basically only just need typed up at this point, they are both 90% done.

The Cleric Class Extension and the Death Portfolio are about 50% complete.

After the Vampire Bestiary is done, I'll try and release a Class Extension and Portfolio each month.

By the way something seems to be wrong with your website, is that just me or is it a major problem?

A few days before I left for my holiday, I got a weird email sent into my junkmail folder telling me my bandwidth was imminently about to be used up. The email had no markings from my webspace provider so I ignored it, I mean I have never had bandwidth problems before after all. The day I went on my holidays the website disappeared (to be replaced by the bandwidth comment you now get). Unfortunately all my passwords and programs related to the website are here at home or on this computer so I was unable to sort that out while away. I'm back now, and I'll take steps within the next 24 hours to fix. I want to see if the website comes back online of its own accord today (1st September). But I still need to email the webspace people and see what they say. I wonder did the bandwidth spike dramatically at some point (which could be a result of some leeching) or has traffic just increased slightly. I'll try and get the whole thing sorted over the next 24-48 hours.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there Khisanth dude!

I would suggest Jotuns or Jotunns (spelling varies - the enemies of the gods from Norse Mythology), and Gegeneis ("Earth-born" - another name for the Greek Gigantes).

Possibly, although Jotuns is a bit generic for giant or more appropriately, another name for Titan I suppose.

Also I think (off the top of my head) I have other cool plans for the name Gegenees.

I basically scoured the books and net for everything giant related I could find and I think I now have both a common and esoteric name for every giant type I wanted (about fourteen I think I have), as well as the Progenitor Primordial for each giant type.

The first of these will be in the Vampire Bestiary.

Perhaps Jotunns could be low immortal (hero/quasi/demi-deity ranked) giants, and Gegeneis could be high immortal (lesser/intermediate/greater deity ranked) giants.

I think there will be Dawn Titans (Lesser Primordials) and Primordials. Although the term Primordial covers as much of a range as the title 'God'.

So it might be something like:

Quasi-deity/Demi-deity= Dawn Titan
(Lesser) Deity/Greater Deity = Primordial
Elder Deity/Over Deity = Progenitor Primordial

Its possible even that the whole Old One, First One approach would apply to Primordials in the Sidereal Tier.

For sidereal ranked giants, possibly Aloadai? The Aloadai were a pair of giants from Greek mythology who challenged the gods at 9 years old, imprisoning Ares, and were defeated, but they would have won if they had waited until their full growth. 2 giants vs. 12 olympian gods (and probably other gods too) seems like it would put them at Elder God level.

In my research I did encounter the Aloadai and be sure they will feature at some juncture.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

In my research I did encounter the Aloadai and be sure they will feature at some juncture.

Awesome! I always really liked the underappreciated, obscure, superpowerful Greek monsters (the Aloadai, Campe/Kampe and the other Drakainai, the Hecatoncheires, the original godlike Cyclopes Arges, Brontes and Steropes, etc.)

Some of these would well fit Immortal Tier Solo opponents: Typhon is at least a Greater God, but I'd put him at Elder One since Zeus (who I'd consider to be on the top-end of Greater: but take this with a ton of salt, since I know you've said Odin is Greater, and my personal eyeballing puts him at a low-end Intermediate, equal with Thor as the greatest in the Norse pantheon) lost the first go-round, and only defeated him the second time with help (in most versions: often from Pan, occasionally from the Fates). The Aloadai again would be Elder Ones if allowed to fully grow up. Kampe... hmm, maybe she'd be an Entity and thus be as powerful as a Greater God? Zeus defeated her, IIRC without help, so I'd leave her Immortal rather than Sidereal. She'd be the top-end Drakaina, with Echidna next (or Python if she/he is considered one), then the lesser drakainai like Delphyne need be no more than demi- or lesser deity equivalents, maybe even draconic abominations. Though I'm currently working up something else for the Drakainai to be...

Just some ideas, draw from, ignore, or critique as you like.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Actually tried posting this last night and ENworld caved in on me. Incidently, I know I haven't got the website sorted back yet, I just got back from the hospital, have some inflammed muscle near my kneecap thats making my leg very sore indeed. No matter what position I sit, stand or lie down in, its still sore, so much so that painkillers don't work. I have some anti-inflammatory tablets and hopefully that should clear things up as soon as possible. On the bright side though the female doctor who attended me was drop dead gorgeous. She spoke highly of my well developed calves and I thanked her by saying I'd add her to the dedications in my next book. She asked if she could be a princess, its about vampires I said, I suppose you could be a vampire princess.

Howdy Khisanth mate!

Awesome! I always really liked the underappreciated, obscure, superpowerful Greek monsters (the Aloadai, Campe/Kampe and the other Drakainai, the Hecatoncheires, the original godlike Cyclopes Arges, Brontes and Steropes, etc.)

I'm amazed no one has ever done anything with the Drakainai before (as far as I know of anyways)

Some of these would well fit Immortal Tier Solo opponents: Typhon is at least a Greater God, but I'd put him at Elder One since Zeus (who I'd consider to be on the top-end of Greater: but take this with a ton of salt, since I know you've said Odin is Greater, and my personal eyeballing puts him at a low-end Intermediate, equal with Thor as the greatest in the Norse pantheon) lost the first go-round, and only defeated him the second time with help (in most versions: often from Pan, occasionally from the Fates).

My Typhon is an Ancient Lunar Dragon. Off hand I cannot remember the level though. Above 41st at any rate.

The Aloadai again would be Elder Ones if allowed to fully grow up.

Indeed. I've been thinking that the Aloadai might be a good esoteric name for Primordial Progenitors and that 'the' Aloadai from the myths would be young Progenitors (or Primordials I suppose).

Kampe... hmm, maybe she'd be an Entity and thus be as powerful as a Greater God? Zeus defeated her, IIRC without help, so I'd leave her Immortal rather than Sidereal.

I think I have Kampe pencilled in as a Level 36 Solo Soldier. Zeus defeated her (as you note) and I don't think she'd be as powerful as Hades (37) but still within 5 of Zeus to give him a challenge.

She'd be the top-end Drakaina, with Echidna next (or Python if she/he is considered one), then the lesser drakainai like Delphyne need be no more than demi- or lesser deity equivalents, maybe even draconic abominations. Though I'm currently working up something else for the Drakainai to be...

...of course not to forget Scylla, who hangs with Charybdis (I think people will like how I have handled 'it').

Just some ideas, draw from, ignore, or critique as you like.

You have given me a few nuggets in there.