Clarification on attacking around corners

[questing gm]

This is probably a noob question about combat but it was raised up in our game on several occasions; attacking around corners.

One of my players said that you can't attack around corners so I went to check the rules but can't find anything definitive. My findings so far tells me that corners don't block line of sight (thus allowing to make an attack) but provides cover/concealment to the target being attacked.

Can someone here clarify to me what are the actual rules (benefits/penalty, if any) for fighting around corners?

 

[Obryn]

Can someone here clarify to me what are the actual rules (benefits/penalty, if any) for fighting around corners?

Hi!

If one of your corners is adjacent to the target, you can attack around the corner without any penalty for cover. And vice-versa, of course.

If you are in ranged combat, you can choose a corner of your square as the origin for an attack and basically fire around the corner without cover impeding you. However, someone shooting back at you will suffer cover penalties to a greater or lesser degree.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

It is entirely governed by the rules for cover and concealment. The way LoS works ANY creature that is in a square just around a right angle corner will always be in LoS of anyone in any square past the corner since at least the 2 corners of their square closest to the corner will not be blocked by anything. So hiding around a corner NEVER prevents attackers from attacking you. Note that AoEs do have to count 2 squares around the corner though, so in some cases it may shield you from an effect.

The rules for cover on page 280 actually specifically state that a target "around a corner or protected by terrain" has cover. The last section in the cover ruleblock on page 280 describes the actual test for cover, 1 or 2 lines drawn from any corner of the attacker's square to all corners of the defender's square blocked = cover. 3 lines blocked = total cover. That works out to ANY 90 degree corner will grant cover from any square whatsoever that is "around the corner" (the diagram at bottom left of page 280 illustrates this pretty well).

 

[questing gm]

Hi!

If one of your corners is adjacent to the target, you can attack around the corner without any penalty for cover. And vice-versa, of course.

I'm not sure so about that. It seems that as long as one of your imaginary line from any corner is obstructed by the wall, the target has cover.

This seems to be the case in PHB pg. 280 (as pointed out by AbdulAlhazred) and DMG pg. 43 (determining cover for melee attack sidebar) which one of my players found out.

Is there even a possible scenario when attacking around the corner doesn't grant the target cover in this case?

 

[ForbidenMaster]

I'm not sure so about that. It seems that as long as one of your imaginary line from any corner is obstructed by the wall, the target has cover.

This seems to be the case in PHB pg. 280 (as pointed out by AbdulAlhazred) and DMG pg. 43 (determining cover for melee attack sidebar) which one of my players found out.

Is there even a possible scenario when attacking around the corner doesn't grant the target cover in this case?

It is all supposed to boil down to "common sense." It is supposed to be something that the DM takes a quick look at and says "cover,' or "no cover." If two guys are fighting in melee arround a corner then common sense (as well as the introduction to the cover rules) say that they both have cover from eachother. If you really need to get technical the DMG has precise rules that will pretty much tell you the exact same thing.

As for the scenario you present in the quote above, the answer is yes. If the creature making the attack is making a ranged attack they can effectively lean arround a corner and ignore it.

 

[Obryn]

The rules for cover on page 280 actually specifically state that a target "around a corner or protected by terrain" has cover. The last section in the cover ruleblock on page 280 describes the actual test for cover, 1 or 2 lines drawn from any corner of the attacker's square to all corners of the defender's square blocked = cover. 3 lines blocked = total cover. That works out to ANY 90 degree corner will grant cover from any square whatsoever that is "around the corner" (the diagram at bottom left of page 280 illustrates this pretty well).

That's not what it says, actually.

Determining Cover: To determine if a target has cover, choose a corner of a square you occupy (or a corner of your attack’s origin square) and trace imaginary lines from that corner to every corner of any one square the target occupies. If one or two of those lines are blocked by an obstacle or an enemy, the target has cover. (A line isn’t blocked if it runs along the edge of an obstacle’s or an enemy’s square.) If three or four of those lines are blocked but you have line of effect, the target has superior cover.

You choose one corner of your own square, and measure to all corners of one square the defender occupies. Then you count the number of blocked lines from that corner to all corners of one square of your enemy's space (and note - the attacker chooses which square). So, if we are standing around a corner, I choose the corner adjacent to the defender's square as the origin of my attack, and there is no cover.

It's different from 3e, where corners did create cover in melee situations.

I'm not sure so about that. It seems that as long as one of your imaginary line from any corner is obstructed by the wall, the target has cover.

If our corners are adjacent, I can choose that corner as the origin. It is impossible for any lines from that corner to be blocked to any corner of the defender's square I choose.

-O

 

[Snowbird]

Yeah but the DMG is clear(er) - the defender (burden of proof) gets to pick the corner to measure from in the melee situation. I.e. you, the attacked, always get light cover from around a corner.

As I recall, determining cover vs. ranged attacks marries up with your PHB quote.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Note also that cover doesn't block opportunity attacks.

 

[Obryn]

Yeah but the DMG is clear(er) - the defender (burden of proof) gets to pick the corner to measure from in the melee situation. I.e. you, the attacked, always get light cover from around a corner.

As I recall, determining cover vs. ranged attacks marries up with your PHB quote.

The DMG phrases its cover rules as optional and more complex - matching up with DDM. It's presented as another way of determining cover when you want more detail - I kinda look at that whole section as a big sidebar that's just not greyed-out.

They directly contradict each other, sadly, and I don't think the DMG rules are more correct than the PHB rules. They're just two ways of doing it.

-O

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Cover (–2 Penalty to Attack Rolls):

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The target is around a corner or protected by terrain. For example, the target might be in the same square as a small tree, obscured by a small pillar or a large piece of furniture, or behind a low wall.
simpleas that...​

seems they forgot to add that deermining cover is only used for ranged attacks​

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from the DMG:

The rules in the​

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Player’s Handbook for determining cover are straightforward. A creature that’s around a corner from the attacker, or protected by terrain, has cover.​