Darksun Teasers

[ProfessorCirno]

Seriously, I've yet to see anyone offer a reasonable explanation of why it would be bad if the dray were dragonborn, or why it would be bad to include tieflings, other than "Well, they weren't there before!" If such things are added in without any effort at making them fit the mood, theme, and feel of Dark Sun, then yes, that would be a bad thing. But if they're included in a way that fits, where's the downside?

It's not necessary?

Yes there are some 4e fans that were also Dark Sun fans. I'm not saying you don't exist. I'm saying you're rare - VERY rare - to the point of being potentially statistically insignificant (NOT SAYING THAT AS AN INSULT).

Why do people >:| at dragonborn and tieflings? Because it's an unnecessary change. Literally, it's a change that is 100% not needed.

This is why 4e and Dark Sun have such a clash. 4e is 100% "Everything is core, use everything, a kitchen sink in every already existing kitchen sink."

Dark Sun is the exact polar opposite of this.

On top of that, there's also the worry of fluff carried over. Instead of dragonborn being altered to fit the dray, it'll be the other way around - that dray will be altered to fit the dragonborn.

 

[amysrevenge]

I think it comes down to this: What do you put more emphasis in? The 4e part, or the Dark Sun part?

Sadly, it will indeed probably come down to that. Personally, I would have asked what do you put more emphasis in? The specific minor details part, or the general feel of the setting part?

 

[Nifft]

Yes there are some 4e fans that were also Dark Sun fans. I'm not saying you don't exist. I'm saying you're rare - VERY rare - to the point of being potentially statistically insignificant

You do realize we're talking about a Dark Sun book for Fourth Edition, right?

Cheers, -- N

 

[PurpleXVI]

I'm a big fan of 2E Dark Sun and am looking forward to the 4E version even with revisions. Tieflings, while hated by me, aren't hard to make fit. Neither are gnomes or any other races so long as they can be savage (eladrin are the biggest stretch for me but I still think of them as a weird cross of elf and outsider).

Ah, but you can't have that, because Dark Sun has no outsiders. Permanent. It has no Baatezu, no Devas. At most it has some sort of Genies since they are more Elemental creatures than Outer Planar, but they do not produce Tieflings and in fact I'm not sure they can even crossbreed with humans.

And if you still have Gnomes and so on, what the hell's the point of the Cleansing Wars? If the Cleansing Wars just cut down population numbers a bit and maybe mauled some races no one was ever going to play anyway, what's the point? Then you might as well excise that MAJOR DAMN POINT from the setting entirely.

 

[PurpleXVI]

Sadly, it will indeed probably come down to that. Personally, I would have asked what do you put more emphasis in? The specific minor details part, or the general feel of the setting part?

The lack of Gods or connection to anything non-Elementally planar is an INCREDIBLY major part of the setting. It means there's really next to no easy healing magic or anything of that order. No one to pray to for help when your ass is truly on the line. No great moral or ethical commandments laid down from above. No assured bountiful afterlife as a reward for altruism.

Things like that would probably change people's outlooks on the world quite a lot compared to your average D&D character.

 

[PurpleXVI]

And I find the idea that (just to pull an example from earlier in the thread) making the dray into dragonborn "ruins" the setting to be so utterly nonsensical that I almost have to assume people are looking for reasons to be upset.

None of this is dependent on whether or not a specific race is added into the setting in 4E.

Thing is, short of humans, all the Dark Sun races were altered from their basic D&D cousins. Dark Sun halflings, giants, elves and even dwarves were nothing like they were in the rest of D&D. They were all more savage and alien to humanity.

They'd have to severely alter Tieflings or Dragonborn or whatever they try to cram into the setting. Plus, again, Dark Sun is a blasted and wasted world. It's not a bountiful basket of hundreds of sentient races. It's got a handful of sentients theoretically capable of benevolence, two handfuls of sentients who want to eat your flesh and a cartload of creatures that can only think of things in terms of food and not food.

Dark Sun Elves were not Elves, Dark Sun Dray were not Dragonborn, Dark Sun Dwarves were not just Dwarves.

 

[Mercutio01]

Neither are gnomes

Well, gnomes were specifically and deliberately left out.

Ari, to turn the argument around--why should those races be shoehorned into a setting that was originally created without them? Regardless if it can be made to fit the idea/theme or not, what good reason do they have to try to force in an element that wasn't there before? Just to ensure that everything "core" for 4e is truly available in every setting?

That's the only reason I can see for forcing in races that didn't exist before.


And honestly, is FR any better because dragonborn were mysteriously pulled into Toril during the Spellplague? If that's an example of "made to fit the theme," I can do without it.

 

[UniversalMonster]

Screw canon. I want desert tieflings with bone weapons battling savage tentacle monsters in a trackless desert.

Anyone that concerned with canon..I guarantee already owns more 1990s-era Dark Sun material than I will ever even read about on Wikipedia, so I'm sure they won't be affected. They already have their stuff.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

You do realize we're talking about a Dark Sun book for Fourth Edition, right?

Cheers, -- N

So?

We had Forgotten Realms for Fourth Edition and yet most of the outspoken fans of that were also outspoken of their hate for FR in previous editions.

 

[AllisterH]

??????

What am I missing here?

The only thing in the blog that I saw was Baker mentioning putting a ring of mountains to prevent the dust bowl from filling up to clear up a contradiction in the Wanderer's journal.

And the mention of explaining what the Silt actually is and how it came about?

Is this what we're arguing about?

(I checked for dragonborn and tiefling and I didn't even see a brief mention of that? Seriously, am I missing something here????)

Oh yeah, Chrome user and it is black text on white background...Small, but readable.