amysrevenge
First Post
So, we have Rouseketeers. Can we have Mouseketeers? Wait, that rings a bell somehow.
Darksun Teasers
- Thread starter Phaezen
- Start date
So, we have Rouseketeers. Can we have Mouseketeers? Wait, that rings a bell somehow.
Dark Sun has no Dragons. Dragonborn would be a poor fit.
Dark Sun 2nd ed druids do not have healing magic, you must have screwed up and used basic 2nd ed druids. Dark Sun druids are basically Elemental Clerics who draw their Elemental Spheres from the lands they guard.
Githyanki and the Astral Plane? I totally agree, that was an awful addition.
The expanded setting, in general, was terrible. Because it RUINED THE PREMISE. The premise was that Athas was an awful damn place. If you wanted something better, you had to sweat, toil, sacrifice and probably DIE to bring it about.
Then all of a sudden the heroes from the Prism Pentad waltz in and KILL A SORCERER-KING. They kill the DRAGON. Then Rajaat shows up and kills half of the remaining Sorcerer-Kings. Aside from all that was bad with it besides, those changes to the setting were completely rancid.
Dark Sun 2nd ed druids do not have healing magic, you must have screwed up and used basic 2nd ed druids. Dark Sun druids are basically Elemental Clerics who draw their Elemental Spheres from the lands they guard.
Githyanki and the Astral Plane? I totally agree, that was an awful addition.
The expanded setting, in general, was terrible. Because it RUINED THE PREMISE. The premise was that Athas was an awful damn place. If you wanted something better, you had to sweat, toil, sacrifice and probably DIE to bring it about.
Then all of a sudden the heroes from the Prism Pentad waltz in and KILL A SORCERER-KING. They kill the DRAGON. Then Rajaat shows up and kills half of the remaining Sorcerer-Kings. Aside from all that was bad with it besides, those changes to the setting were completely rancid.
ki11erDM
Explorer
Yes, to understand you have to let the nerdrage fully enter your soul. Or use the ignore settings. Just put about 6 or so people on it and life at ENWorld because a well mannered and reasonable place.
Hadrian the Builder
First Post
It's a little ridiculous to get this worked up from a few off-hand comments by the designers.
I loved Dark Sun so much that it was the ONLY setting I bought when I was a kid. I still have that box and all the supplements. And I'm thrilled to see it come back. I was at GenCon the day it was announced. The people in the room brought up the same concerns as there are here. Bill Slavicek acknowledged the concerns, and said that WotC recognizes that Dark Sun is differnt and needs some special treatment.
If you look at the mechanics, there's no racial ability or power that really kills the aesthetic of the setting. Just re-skinning descriptions can probably address most of the imagined problems. For players, feats can provide alot of Dark-Sun specific changes. Look at Eberron and compare the Valenaar elves to the Aerenal elves as monsters, for example. Look at the difference in halflings in eberron, the points of light setting and Forgotten Realms.
Even scars on contemporary Athas left by ancient, remote, long-forgotten gods does not change the feel of the setting, since those same gods are remote and long-forgotten.
As to shoe-horning...the original map of Athas only showed the tablelands east to the sea of silt. The whole world has never been drawn, as it was in Eberron. There is plenty of room for every race, beyond the edges of the map. And they don't have to come from vibrant, thriving communities for there to be enough of them to produce one hero.
I loved Dark Sun so much that it was the ONLY setting I bought when I was a kid. I still have that box and all the supplements. And I'm thrilled to see it come back. I was at GenCon the day it was announced. The people in the room brought up the same concerns as there are here. Bill Slavicek acknowledged the concerns, and said that WotC recognizes that Dark Sun is differnt and needs some special treatment.
If you look at the mechanics, there's no racial ability or power that really kills the aesthetic of the setting. Just re-skinning descriptions can probably address most of the imagined problems. For players, feats can provide alot of Dark-Sun specific changes. Look at Eberron and compare the Valenaar elves to the Aerenal elves as monsters, for example. Look at the difference in halflings in eberron, the points of light setting and Forgotten Realms.
Even scars on contemporary Athas left by ancient, remote, long-forgotten gods does not change the feel of the setting, since those same gods are remote and long-forgotten.
As to shoe-horning...the original map of Athas only showed the tablelands east to the sea of silt. The whole world has never been drawn, as it was in Eberron. There is plenty of room for every race, beyond the edges of the map. And they don't have to come from vibrant, thriving communities for there to be enough of them to produce one hero.
Mouseferatu
Hero
Are you sure you're thinking of 4E dragonborn, and not 3E? The dragonborn of 4E look as though they could be related to dragons, and some of the individual world mythologies link them, but they absolutely don't require dragons to exist. There are 1,001 ways to use them--just in terms of flavor, without even needing to touch the mechanics much, if at all--without the tiniest connection to true dragons.
Hadrian the Builder
First Post
In addition, there's nothing to say with certainty that there are NO dragons in Athas. Only that there may be only one, or very few.
Ktulu
First Post
I, for one, enjoyed the blog-post. I despise when bad cartography is put in published game settings (I'm looking at you plateau-on-a-plateau*) and I want the designers to look at the setting with a critical eye. Otherwise, why put out a new version? I want changes, I want the 4e mechanics/races input, otherwise, again, why put out a new version? I'd still be forced to figure out where Dragonborn go when Johnny asks to play one.
I don't think all changes are successful, and sometimes they may go too far. That being said, if no change is made, we never get anywhere.
I don't think all changes are successful, and sometimes they may go too far. That being said, if no change is made, we never get anywhere.
It may not be an insult, but it is pulled out of thin air, is it not? I'm sorry, but it is terribly weak as support of your position.
Obryn
Hero
...apart from the Dray, of course, which are basically humanoid dragons.
Er, no.... I think you're confused. Dark Sun druids - unlike clerics - had MAJOR (ie, full) access to the Cosmos domain, where all the good healing spells lived. They had this in addition to their Elemental access.
Hey, I don't disagree that the Revised setting wasn't as good as the original box set. I more or less completely ignored it, myself. But therein lies part of my point - nothing will be that original box set again. And if you're worried about WotC "ruining" the setting by adding 4e or planar elements, you're ignoring TSR's multitudinous changes. You can't re-wreck something that's already been wrecked. (Heck; WotC has already said they're reversing the timeline to pre-Prism Pentad!)
If you're worried about the setting's integrity, you're over a decade too late. And if you ignored the Revised set's changes, it's no harder to ignore 4e's.
-O
