Alternate Magic Systems for 3.5?

[Andor]

Iron Heros has an alternate magic system, although it had somewhat mixed reviews.

Midnight has a different feat based approach to spell casting, but I can't remember the details and my books are in storage.

BESM d20 had a very flexible magic system which was cheaper to buy if you stuck to a limited path although you could spend more to be able to do anything your little black heart desired.

I do like Arcana Evolved's magic system, it's an interesting mix of the wizard and sorcerer approaches to magic, and has a lot of flexibility built into it.

If you want a skill based magic system you can't do better than to steal the one from Ars Magica although it'd be a fair amount of work to port it over to 3e.

Or you could junk the primary spell casters and focus on the lesser path magicians of 3e like Rangers, Paladins, Incarnum users, Binders, Sohei, True Namers, Psi-Warriors, etc.

Or just open the flood gates. I mean, if you allow Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics, Druids, Shamans, Wu Jen, Shugenja, Bards, Artificers, Shadowcasters, Psions, Beguilers, Warlocks, Dragon Initiates and Swords Sages can your players really complain about a lack of options?

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

These are probably the most popular ones out there. My opinions from my kick-the-tires sessions:

That was an awesome recap of each of the systems, thank you very much! I think I might have to get True Sorcery and Thieves World to check those systems out... I do have Arcana Unearthed, so I know that system a little bit though I've never used it.

I'll outline my goals for my next magic system, in no particular order:

• Fewer overall spells, but with more flexibility to each one
• Greater differentiation of effects
• Speed of play at the table (this comes partly from fewer spells)
• introducing a level of risk/reward - crits, failures, etc.
• Removing or limiting the spells that "break" my suspension of disbelief or make the game more outlandish than I'd like - things like teleport, raise dead, etc. The usual suspects, really.
• Reworking magic item creation to make items more rare, but also more interesting. This involves working on the base system to make the "Big 6" items less necessary - at least from a mathematical bonus POV.

I want to make my game more of a low-magic game, but not necessarily grim-n-gritty.

 

[Azgulor]

That was an awesome recap of each of the systems, thank you very much! I think I might have to get True Sorcery and Thieves World to check those systems out... I do have Arcana Unearthed, so I know that system a little bit though I've never used it.

I'll outline my goals for my next magic system, in no particular order:

• Fewer overall spells, but with more flexibility to each one
• Greater differentiation of effects
• Speed of play at the table (this comes partly from fewer spells)
• introducing a level of risk/reward - crits, failures, etc.
• Removing or limiting the spells that "break" my suspension of disbelief or make the game more outlandish than I'd like - things like teleport, raise dead, etc. The usual suspects, really.
• Reworking magic item creation to make items more rare, but also more interesting. This involves working on the base system to make the "Big 6" items less necessary - at least from a mathematical bonus POV.

I want to make my game more of a low-magic game, but not necessarily grim-n-gritty.

Those match my goals pretty well! Given those goals, I'll add the following:

The TW Player's Manual replaces the Cleric with the Priest, the Paladin with the Godsworn, the Bard with the Initiate, the Wizard with the Mage, and the Sorceror with the Witch. They are all more thematically classic Swords-n-sorcery rather than D&D versions (not better, just different). Each class gets a list of abilities to pick from rather than a defined progression of feat-like powers, so a priest doesn't have to Turn Undead if you don't want it to do so. Also, cure wounds spells have a trade-off. The HP damage is healed, but a corresponding amount of non-lethal damage is incurred.

I also preferred the TW methods for spell failure, quick-casting, rituals, etc. over True Sorcery.

I'd classify TW's system as "medium magic" and True Sorcery as closer to "low magic". I think both systems were developed by the same author so of all the options mentioned, they're the closest to each other.

 

[StarFyre]

After a friend wanted to be a true wild mage (not the travesty that was the 3.5E prestige class version, or the 4E sorceror)...true as in..lots of good/bad random stuff happening (and the rest of the party loves it), I created a custom magic system for him for 3.XE.

Then, as friends (mainly the warrior players for some odd reason), hated 4E, I converted a similar one for regular wizards in 4E.

Essentially, the same table, but a slight difference, and so far everyone loves it and it works great.

We have a spreadsheet on a laptop (printed, but most players have a laptop for them to keep track of stuff anyways andfor me to send private into to specific players)...it has aspects of a spell...so stuff like: range, durations, damage dice (if applicable), and some other stuff (for non combat spells).

Basically, tehy create the spell effect they want to do, by choosing components of magic and the point values assigned help yield a DC value.

Using their con + int/cha to represent how magic is powerful and takes it's toll on the caster, similar to Warhammer miscasts, they have to roll against that DC. If they pass it..the spell goes off..if they fail it..it doesn't (or it goes off at an even weaker effect in some cases). For the wild mage..they have an extra tier. The sheet calculates what they need to cast it, then it indicates what a failure is... AND if they are 5 below a regular failure, that causes a surge (similar to 2E table but we modified it for stuff that makes no sense in 4E).

The difference, is the wild mage is unbounded...creating power cards for the wild mage for many common spells he used, he has 3 choices..he can cast at his equivalent level, half, or try to overload it and go double level. Since it's so random, we find that it hasn't been a problem(and everyone seem to love it when something good OR bad happens as the roleplaying for some of it is priceless (ie. he destroyed a church, when a surge caused a small mountain to rise out of the ground and thru the city church..while the towns people watched in horror!!!!)).

The regular wizard, is bounded..so there is a divider there that the maximum level can't go as high as teh wild mage..but essentially he can only fail on a very slim chance... normally a 1 or 2...OR if he tries to do something crazy and cast a more powerful effect at a lower level..he could TRY, but if he neds 18+ to get it..and failing it makes him weakened, he won't try it. The bounding keeps his damage in line with 4E's limits instead of how 2/3.XE worked. (the wild mage, we left like older methods due to the fun/chaos it causes).

The thing my players like the most; the caster player never needs to refer to the PHB...other than for feats or HP/skils, etc. All his spells, are detailed in one spreadsheet ...

For example, i don't have it here, butthe concept is:

A level 15 wizard vs a level 15 wild mage

Wizard: Cast fireball, 5d6 damage, needs to roll a 2 or 3+ (forgot which) if he has decent stats (con/int). if he wanted to attempt a timestop (ie. 2 extra actions), he would need to roll a 16+ or something. Meteor swarm would be natural 20..so probably not happening. Anything below, he is weakened or something..and can't cast until hsi next round (unless he uses an action pt, inw hich case there is a penalty on the next cast attempt)

Wild mage; Wild mage ..same fireball at level 15.....he can cast at 7d6 with a 6+ needed...if he rolls 1 ..he causes a surge. He can cast at 15d6, but he needs a 12+ and a 7 or lower causes a surge, or he can try to cast at 30+, but then he needs a 24+ (which is only possible if he has stats that modify that roll). And he surges on a 19 or lower... (so chances are, he will never try it except in VERY rare situations).

It's can be a bit much for some, i imagine, but my group loves it

Sanjay