Feather Fall in Rules Compendium?

[Vegepygmy]

I don't see any worthwhile reason you should be able to cast feather fall when surprised, just because you might possibly be falling off a cliff at the time.

The entire point of the spell is to save you from unexpected falls. Why should it matter whether the unexpectedness results from an inattentive misstep (spell saves you) or an unnoticed enemy pushing you (spell can't save you)? In both cases, I would think, you're going to be "surprised."

 

[cheshire_grin]

Because when flat-footed you are caught completely off guard. Think "deer in the headlights". Your presence of mind has deserted you, you cannot react appropriately in any sort of immediate fashion.

 

[Runestar]

Thinking about Nerveskitter spell in Spell Compendium, which is an immediate action spell meant to cast when a caster rolls his initiative, I guess at least some of the designers in WotC did not have the implication of the no-immediate-actions-when-flatfooted in mind.

When rolling one's initiative, he is flat-footed....

Check the errata for spell compendium. It mentions that you can cast nerveskitter while flat-footed.

 

[Dross]

That would make a lot of sense, except that you could already cast feather fall when it wasn't your turn; the spell description explicitly said so.

I think it's pretty obviously a mistake. They didn't think about the implications of the no-immediate-actions-when-flatfooted rider, and now by RAW you can't save yourself with feather fall if you're pushed off a cliff by an opponent who surprises you, but you can if you just happen to fall off the same cliff all on your own outside of combat.

That makes no sense, so I have to conclude it was unintentional.

I'd have to agree with V here.

I'd also add that you could state the specific text of being able to cast the spell still over-rides the general rule of no immediate actions while flat-footed.

 

[frankthedm]

I'd also add that you could state the specific text of being able to cast the spell still over-rides the general rule of no immediate actions while flat-footed.

i'd say that is a reasonable way of running it.

You can cast this spell with an instant utterance, quickly enough to save yourself if you unexpectedly fall.

 

[NewJeffCT]

I'd have to agree with V here.

I'd also add that you could state the specific text of being able to cast the spell still over-rides the general rule of no immediate actions while flat-footed.

However, the Rules Compendium specifically cites Feather Fall as an example of moving from a Free Action to an Immediate Action.

 

[Elethiomel]

This is how I rule it because all distance you travel occurs on your turn in the intiative order (bull rush not withstanding - since actually both parties are moving). Despite common sense you don't continuously fall throughout the round, all movement you make (or distance your traverse) is calculated on your turn in the initiative order.

So I rule that if you fall in a trap on a surprise round (since initiaitve should start immediately then) you don't "start" to fall until your turn in the intiative order to be consistent with the way all movement is handled.

This. The turn-based combat in DnD is explicitly states it's intending to simulate simultaneous actions by all participants of the combat. You don't actually stand still outside your turn - it's an abstraciton to make combat move at a reasonable pace.

Also,

However, the Rules Compendium specifically cites Feather Fall as an example of moving from a Free Action to an Immediate Action.

I would rule that this text means that when you cast Feather Fall you lose your next swift action, which was the major feature of Immediate Actions in the first place.

I would still allow Feather Fall when flat-footed even if the abstraction of not falling until it's your turn in the initiative order is too much for a group, but I hold to Irdeggman's interpretation of movement and falling rules so if you're falling outside your initiative count I consider us to already be in house rule territory.

 

[Jhaelen]

However, the Rules Compendium specifically cites Feather Fall as an example of moving from a Free Action to an Immediate Action.

So?

This reminds me of an endless debate about whether you're flat-footed all the time outside of combat. Poor RAW players obviously are. Everyone else just shrugs and follows common sense.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Because when flat-footed you are caught completely off guard.

I'm still not getting why you're any more "completely off guard" when an enemy pushes you off a cliff than you are when, say, you step onto an illusionary floor.

Think "deer in the headlights". Your presence of mind has deserted you, you cannot react appropriately in any sort of immediate fashion.

Yeah, I understand the concept of "flat-footed." That's not the point at all.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I don't understand the problem.

First, a character is not flat-footed outside of combat. Flat-footed is defined in terms of being in combat, i.e., in initiative. No combat, no initiative, no flat-footed. It's irrelevant that feather fall is an immediate action, outside of combat, just as it's irrelevant that stone shape is a standard action, outside of combat. Outside of combat, feather fall is just a spell you cast to slow a fall.

Second, if you are in combat and flat-footed, I don't understand why it's so unthinkable that someone deliberately trying to make a wizard's teammate fall might actually succeed in doing so. Why is it so difficult to believe that a wizard could be caught gawking by the sudden eruption of combat?

Feather fall works perfectly well as an immediate action spell. (Nerveskitter didn't, but as someone pointed out, nerveskitter was errataed. Badly -- it should have simply said, "when rolling for initiative" -- but well enough to serve.)