Reduced Monster Hit Points Results

[ren1999]

We have been play testing things from Dragon and Dungeon magazine by reducing lesser monster's hit points by anywhere from 25% to 75% along with experience point reductions to reduce the time it takes to do combat based on the suggestion of someone here and I must say that it is a very nice method. It makes the game feel the way it used to. Of course the big bosses retain all their hit points.

 

[DanmarLOK]

Glad it's working for you.

Interesting how so many people are finding it necessary to tweak combat this way. Myself I've gone with averaged damage instead of rolled damage (which includes +1/2 level damage for one target per attack) and a flat +2 attack bonus on both sides across the board. This is working very well for us. A fight with 1 elite, 4 standards and 20 minions (level 5-7) against 5 level sixes only lasted about an hour without any reported drag.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Its odd, I haven't really noticed that monsters usually seem to HAVE excessive hit points. I guess reducing hit points on some monsters by 25% would get them killed off quicker, but it seems like when a couple of the high damage dealing PCs focus on a level equivalent monster it goes down in about 2 rounds. There are always a few monsters here and there that hang on a while, but once the party deals with the couple of biggies the rest have usually taken a decent amount of damage too.

I'd say if there is a problem its generally a higher level elite or solo (especially soldiers) that can seem to hang around a bit too long. I'd be more tempted to apply the MM2 monster design pattern and just cut back a bit on the defenses and maybe 20% on the hit points of the big guys and leave the small fry alone.

Of course every DM uses a bit different mix of monsters, so its kind of hard to say there is one perfect formula. I tend to rely a lot on larger numbers of monsters that are 1-3 levels lower than the PCs and a couple equal level baddies to bolster them up. It seems to be a reasonably good way to go so far.

 

[DanmarLOK]

My rules aren't designed to work on hit poitns per se, I've not had a problem with the monsters staying alive 'too long'. Mine are designed to make combat slightly faster and to flatten the power curve a bit.

 

[pdoconnell]

I've been playing with 50% hitpoints, +25-50% damage. It makes combat MUCH bloodier, but the party I run is enjoying it, since it allows them to avoid what they perceive as a grind, lets them use all the toys they like, and move onto story. The higher end of the increased damage scale I think only works because we have two leaders (warlord and cleric), otherwise I would advise the lower end of the scale unless you want a really scary combat.

 

[Blackbrrd]

The current level 8 party I am DM-ing usually mops up level +0 to level +2 encounters in about 5 rounds. Each fight lasts 30-45 minutes. In other words: monsters get killed fast enough.

As a DM I have some issues with actually managing to damage the party. I usually go for targetting the Invoker or Bard. The Ranger has too many immidiate interrupt powers. The Barbarian* has too much temp hp and too high healing surge value and the Fighter is just a pain I try to avoid.

*Started with str/dex 18 since he is a half-orc so he has quite good AC.

 

[Nebulous]

As a DM I have some issues with actually managing to damage the party. I The Barbarian* has too much temp hp and too high healing surge value and the Fighter is just a pain I try to avoid.

I actually managed to kill the full health, 8th level barbarian in our last adventure in Pyramid of Shadows in two rounds. A trap in the book, Location #4, cut him off from his allies and the monster just ripped him to shreds before anyone could get in there to help. I made it a little harder by adding some minons too, but all in all it was just a deathtrap. As for the fighter, i don't think i've ever come close to killing the fighter. From a DM point of view they can be a real pain in the arse.

 

[Starfox]

I've been playing with 50% hitpoints, +25-50% damage. It makes combat MUCH bloodier, but the party I run is enjoying it, since it allows them to avoid what they perceive as a grind, lets them use all the toys they like, and move onto story. The higher end of the increased damage scale I think only works because we have two leaders (warlord and cleric), otherwise I would advise the lower end of the scale unless you want a really scary combat.

I posted the 50% hp, 150% number of monsters idea way back. That has worked reasonably well for us, but next session I'm going to try 50% hp, 200% damage instead. Mainly to make the game quicker and more dramatic; fights now seem a bit too long and a bit too safe.

Reading that 25 to 50% extra damage has done it for you makes me a bit nervous tough - maybe 100% extra damage is a bit much. But it ought to work out pretty much the same at 50% more monsters, mathematically.


My reasoning, very schematically, is this:


50% extra monsters at half hit points
Monsters do more damage because there are more of them.

150% damage (numbers) * 50% time (hp) * 150% total ho (numbers again) = 113% total damage over the fight


100% extra damage at half hit points
200% damage * 50% time (hp) = 100% total damage over the fight

 

[Blackbrrd]

I actually managed to kill the full health, 8th level barbarian in our last adventure in Pyramid of Shadows in two rounds. A trap in the book, Location #4, cut him off from his allies and the monster just ripped him to shreds before anyone could get in there to help. I made it a little harder by adding some minons too, but all in all it was just a deathtrap. As for the fighter, i don't think i've ever come close to killing the fighter. From a DM point of view they can be a real pain in the arse.

After the Fighter got Crushing Surge, he has been really hard to damage. If he gets too much attention, he just swaps to hit for 8 or 5 temp hp depending on if he hits or not. He gets 3 temp hp if he hits with his normal powers...

I have managed to put our fighter down, but that was about level 3 or 4 with a Hobgoblin warcaster that rolled high all the time. Hobgoblin warcasters are fun.

I can probably kill any character if I cut them off from the rest of the party. Something that is not going to happen if they have ANY way of preventing it. Throwing half an encounter on a single character without back is deadly.

 

[Blackbrrd]

I posted the 50% hp, 150% number of monsters idea way back. That has worked reasonably well for us, but next session I'm going to try 50% hp, 200% damage instead. Mainly to make the game quicker and more dramatic; fights now seem a bit too long and a bit too safe.

Reading that 25 to 50% extra damage has done it for you makes me a bit nervous tough - maybe 100% extra damage is a bit much. But it ought to work out pretty much the same at 50% more monsters, mathematically.


My reasoning, very schematically, is this:


50% extra monsters at half hit points
Monsters do more damage because there are more of them.

150% damage (numbers) * 50% time (hp) * 150% total ho (numbers again) = 113% total damage over the fight


100% extra damage at half hit points
200% damage * 50% time (hp) = 100% total damage over the fight

How long does your fights last? Mine lasts as I mentioned about 5 rounds, so yours should last maybe 3? That isn't even enough to blow through all your encounter powers at higher levels, much less any dailies?