3E & 4E Love and Hate Polls - What does it mean?

[Hairfoot]

Are you suggesting 4e fans are in general worse people than 3e fans?

Or do you think it's more likely that one or more 4e fans are just fed up with continued holier-than-thou condescension from the more vocal 3e fans?

I wasn't surprised at the hate toward 4e but I was rather surprised at the hate toward 3e. And I really think it's more a reaction to incessant 4e hate than anything to do with the 3e ruleset.

I mean, how do you hate a game?

The hate of 4e says more about 4e haters than it does about 4e.

Nope. I haven't said a thing about 3E fans vs 4E fans, because it's not relevant. "Some 3E fans hate on 4E" is categorically not an answer to the question "why would someone artificially boost 4E's popularity in a poll?".

As for the theory that it's revenge against the "haters", that begs the question why. If 4E is so clearly dominant, who would feel the need to ratchet the poll results? And how is revenge served by trying to unobtrusively produce a false result? Whoever did it was clumsy and got noticed, but it's highly unlikely that was their intention.

Like it or not, all the evidence points to a desperate concern that 4E isn't as popular as the fans think it should be, and/or that they feel 3E is intolerably popular with ENworlders.

4E is undoubtedly popular here, almost certainly more so than 3E, but apparently that's not enough. 3E has to be loathed and despised, and 4E lofted unto the heavens.

Someone out there has far too much ego invested in the popularity of a game!

Clear? Really? Consider - you just said you don't know who did it, or how many there were, or how it was done, but even without that, you know why it happened?

Doesn't that sound the least bit... presumptuous, to you?

Don't you think someone out there would be oh-so-happy to make you look foolish by driving you to that presumption, so they could sit back and laugh at you being wrong?

Do you mind clarifying that a little?

As it stands, the fact is that a poll was hacked or spammed in order to make 4E appear far more popular with ENworld members than it really is.

The obvious contender is 4E fans who aren't satisfied with the game's already strong popularity, but you seem to be saying - and please correct me if I've misunderstood - that a more likely explanation is that someone went to the trouble of sabotaging a poll in the hope people would notice, because watching people talk about a rigged poll provides epic lulz.
Occam's razor says no, but maybe ENworld really is home to the most dedicated, inept and easily amused troll on the internet!

Incidentally, we're all assuming that this is the work of an ENworld member, but Hasbro and its affiliates are no doubt also keen to maintain 4E's perceived popularity during the Christmas retail-fest.

 

[The Little Raven]

The obvious contender is 4E fans who aren't satisfied with the game's already strong popularity, but you seem to be saying - and please correct me if I've misunderstood - that a more likely explanation is that someone went to the trouble of sabotaging a poll in the hope people would notice, because watching people talk about a rigged poll provides epic lulz.

In case you're new to the internet, the number one reason for hacks of this nature are for epic lulz. 4chan hacked the MTV Europe poll a while back in order to make Rick Astley win "Best Act Ever" for epic lulz. Never underestimate the power of boredom.

Incidentally, we're all assuming that this is the work of an ENworld member, but Hasbro and its affiliates are no doubt also keen to maintain 4E's perceived popularity during the Christmas retail-fest.

This is where I miss having an eyeroll emoticon. It's improbable for some silly internet wannabe hacker to hack the poll for fun, but it's totally probable for a professional for a publicly-traded corporation to hack it in order to... what? Boost sales? Do you really think some lame ass poll on ENWorld is going to have an impact on Hasbro's holiday sales? Man, THAT is naive.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

As it stands, the fact is that a poll was hacked or spammed in order to make 4E appear far more popular with ENworld members than it really is.

No, the fact is that a poll was hacked. Period.

The result of that hack made 4e appear more popular. But there is exactly zero evidence as to the motive. For all anyone knows, the polls could have been hacked in 3e's favor. The only person who knows is the one(s) who did it.

To me, it just looks like some mediocre hacker wannabe decided to incite a skirmish in the edition war, for grits and shiggles. Sadly, it looks like he succeeded

 

[Snoweel]

Nope. I haven't said a thing about 3E fans vs 4E fans

You've made a comment about 4e fans:

I haven't commented on whether a group of fans is better than another, only that some 4E fans are obviously anxious about the game's popularity

And left it to stand on its own as though it applies to one group of fans but not the other.

Do you really think 3e fans aren't also "obviously anxious about the game's popularity"? You clearly are given your focus on it in this thread. Likewise, it seems to be 3e fans that continue to insist that the two polls have some kind of self-evident meaning.

Whatsmore, you can look at any number of smarmy, -eating sigs around here and see 4e hate; usually in place of anything positive about the posters' preferred edition.

People are "obviously anxious" to paint 4e as unpopular, despite the wider internet showing it to be extremely popular. This is telling: Campaigns | Obsidian Portal

because it's not relevant. "Some 3E fans hate on 4E" is categorically not an answer to the question "why would someone artificially boost 4E's popularity in a poll?".

Actually, there could be any reason why one person would do something. It's easier to explain the actions of a thousand people than it is to explain the actions of one.

As for the theory that it's revenge against the "haters", that begs the question why.

Simple annoyance I would have thought. It's frustrating to keep hearing people denigrate something you like.

If 4E is so clearly dominant, who would feel the need to ratchet the poll results?

Somebody who doesn't understand the utter insignificance of said poll? Somebody aware of the meaninglessness of the poll but all too aware of how certain whiny haters will misinterpret the results and use them as justification for continued edition bashing?

And how is revenge served by trying to unobtrusively produce a false result? Whoever did it was clumsy and got noticed, but it's highly unlikely that was their intention.

This has already been answered by other posters.

Like it or not, all the evidence points to a desperate concern that 4E isn't as popular as the fans think it should be

That's the only conclusion you can draw is it? Are you even trying to be objective?

and/or that they feel 3E is intolerably popular with ENworlders.

I'm sure this is true for some, which is sad. It may even be the sole motivation for the possibly lone poster who messed with the poll. But it also probably isn't.

4E is undoubtedly popular here, almost certainly more so than 3E

I'd say 4e is both more popular here as well as being more unpopular, if that makes any sense.

but apparently that's not enough. 3E has to be loathed and despised, and 4E lofted unto the heavens.

Oh please. 3e hate is minimal around here. For most of us 3e was previously our favourite edition.

It is possible however, that people are so annoyed at the endless 4e bashing, that they have transferred this annoyance to 3e, which is also sad. Because 3e was a great game.

Someone out there has far too much ego invested in the popularity of a game!

So this "friend of yours", the one with too much ego invested in the popularity of the game... do you think he'll be ok?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projection_(psychology)

 

[haakon1]

No, the fact is that a poll was hacked. Period.

The result of that hack made 4e appear more popular. But there is exactly zero evidence as to the motive.

Agreed.

I'm the original poster of the 3e poll and a 3e lover/4e hater. But I wouldn't vote to convict 4e fandom of hacking the poll. It could be random gee-whiz hacking, troll-baiting, or a 3e fan trying to make 4e fans look bad.

Dunno, don't care which -- don't feed the trolls, don't feed the hackers.

 

[Shemeska]

Oh please. 3e hate is minimal around here.

 

[haakon1]

It would be nice, if in the OP for the 3E poll, at the very top, in big, bold letters you could state: THIS POLL IS NOT ACCURATE DUE TO HACKING. I know the polls don't matter anyway, but since they also haven't been buried by newer threads yet, it does kind of bother me that non-regulars could click on the thread, see the poll results, never look beyond the first page, if even past the first few posts (how many actually read through 5+ pages of a thread often?), and actualyl come away thinking those results are genuine. Yeah, one poll. Doesn't really mean anything or matter. And yet, it still irks me.

I really, really don't like changing the original post on a poll thread, but I will post as you request.

Moderators, if that's bad, let me know and either delete the edit, or tell me to.

Thanks,
Original Poster of the 3e poll

 

[The Little Raven]

Let's see it.

For instance, I can't recall a single poster with a signature that bashes 3e, but I can think of a few off the top of my head that bash 4e (some of which, by their phrasing, insult 4e fans).

The closest to 3e "hate" I see is people emphatically stating that they never want to play or run it again.

 

[Snoweel]

I know you can read. My justification came after that comment.

While I don't think anybody really hates 3e (maybe a few twisted individuals), there is clearly a lot of animosity toward those 3e fans that happen to hate 4e.

 

[N0Man]

Let's see it.

For instance, I can't recall a single poster with a signature that bashes 3e, but I can think of a few off the top of my head that bash 4e (some of which, by their phrasing, insult 4e fans).

The closest to 3e "hate" I see is people emphatically stating that they never want to play or run it again.

This has been my perception of things as well. I've played D&D casually in various forms for 20 years now, and 4E is definitely my favorite. I can still criticize some elements, and it's not perfect, but I have no interest in playing previous versions any longer. However, it feels silly to me to "hate" 3E or any other version.

In fact, I don't know anyone that prefers 4E, and hates 3E. However, I know many who prefer 3E and hate 4E.

Some seem to use the lack of 3E hate as some kind of proof that 3E is better because it's less hated than 4E is. I tend to think that it's more about a lot of 4E haters are overreacting, have have bought into a lot of the 4E-bashing propaganda on the net without any real critical thinking being involved. I especially think the latter when I hear the exact same catchphrase criticisms being parroted continuously, despite the fact that they are misleading, exaggerated, or don't hold up to real scrutiny. This isn't to say there aren't valid criticisms, however there are a number that are without merit that keep being echoed.

Sometimes I think there is a slight parallel in the introduction of 4E and the introduction of New Coke in the 80's. There were a lot of people who preferred New Coke, and sales of Coke actually went up over the previous year, but there was a huge backlash of anger by a small minority of customers. I'm talking extreme and irrational anger.

One story goes that an elderly woman hit a Coke deliveryman with an umbrella while he was restocking New Coke, yelling "It tastes like S***!"

I don't hate 3E, and I don't think 4E is perfect. I don't think that everyone who prefers 3E is a "4E hater", but a small number of them are. However, from those that are the haters, I find the attacks (both implied or explicit) on 4E players because of their preference to be extremely tiresome. I don't go around insulting individual's intelligence or character based on their game preference.