Falling off the 4ed bandwagon

[Obryn]

And cake. Don't forget that you want to eat cake too!

The cake is a lie.

Sorry to break it to you like this.

-O

 

[Markn]

What? Damn! Then it must be pie! Orc pie!

 

[Dice4Hire]

For example, look at the way classes play. WotC's designers are pretty upfront about the fact that they wanted to make all the different classes play in the same way. They did that very successfully... and in the process eliminated all the other ways of playing the game that lots of people used to enjoy.

Such as?

 

[Glyfair]

Dice4Hire, I hear you and agree. One thing I appreciate about pretty much every edition of D&D is that it says jsut that: "Bend and break it until it is yours." I do wish they gave that option with Character Builder.

I know it's a hard thing to do, but if Character Builder is the problem, why not just throw away Character Builder? Once you have a house rule that can't be worked around when using the Character Builder, then just disallow it's use.

I suspect one of two things would happen. Either your group would find ways to use both the house rules and CB at the same time (perhaps just by pencilling in the changes on the CB character sheet), or you will lose the dependence on CB.

 

[Jack99]

Jack99, you had me until you said "...as much fun as I do." My goal is not to have as much fun as you or anyone else--heck, we have no way of comparing how much fun we have--but to optimize my own experience, and that of my group. But it isn't only that, or perhaps even mainly that--it is also a matter of aesthetics.

Sorry that I lost you. It means that I am having a lot of fun, and I hope you find a way to have that too, nothing else.

Good luck

 

[FireLance]

Such as?

The key element is probably a variety of resource management models ranging from: almost purely at-will abilities (fighter and rogues/thieves) to almost purely daily abilities prepared in advance (clerics and wizards) to daily spell slots or power points used to activate effects from a pre-selected list (sorcerers, psions and "specialist" spellcasting classes like the warmage and the beguiler) to more esoteric resource management models such as blade magic, incarnum and vestige binding.

 

[Hairfoot]

Regarding the "it's just nostalgia" idea, I like Philotomy's comments:

The idea behind "rose colored glasses" is that your perception is being altered, and that you aren't seeing things as they truly are. If you're "looking back through rose colored glasses," it means that you're not seeing clearly, with the implication that time has tricked your memory, making the past seem better than it actually was. You only see the good stuff through the rose colored glasses. So this is a neat turn of phrase, a flippant dismissal of any fond feelings for older editions like OD&D. Nevertheless, while glib, the phrase doesn't apply to me and my enthusiam for OD&D.

Rose colored glasses only "work" when you're looking back on an experience. Once you actually go back and experience it, again, the glasses stop working. At that point, the experience must stand or fall on its own merits (or lack thereof). I'm not looking back fondly on OD&D, I'm currently playing it. When I say I like it, it's not because rose colored glasses have skewed my perception of the past; it's because I like the experience I'm currently having. Rose colored glasses? Nope.

There's certainly a nostalgia factor in wanting to try old editions, but the fact is that a lot of people are also having as much fun with them as the did "back in the day".

 

[vagabundo]

I've had some of your concerns myself - since cracking open the books.

But the core of 4e fits me like a glove and I can change or ignore the other parts to my liking; focusing on different modules or ripping them out entirely.

I would like WotC to release a Unearthed Arcane that would have some optional systems to try, but the basics are very transparent in 4e and I feel confident to DIY it.

I've got Star Wars Saga on its way to me now. I'm interested to see some of the variant rules used there and maybe apply it to my 4e game.

 

[Jhaelen]

Regarding the "it's just nostalgia" idea, I like Philotomy's comments

Thanks for the quote, it's really accurate. You don't know how much is nostalgia and how much is because of the system's true merit unless you try it again.

I've tried it once and it didn't work for me. There were just too many things (some of which I'd completely forgotten about) that I didn't like. Additionally, my priorities have changed in the 25+ years I've been playing rpgs. I used to love highly 'realistic', simulationist systems, now I prefer systems that simply 'play' well.

Regarding the solution to create your personal, custom 'definite D&D edition', I'm not sure if this will actually work well. Having done this back in the 2e days, I've found two problems:

1. While I, as the DM, was super-happy about my version of D&D, my players didn't really care all that much about my changes. Sure, they went along with every change I made, but looking back, I think they'd been happier if I had simply played the game as-is (as much as you actually could, since 2e pretty much required a certain amount of house-ruling).

2. The second problem was that I could no longer use any official new material without modifying it to fit into my 'edition'.

Both problems combined lead to the campaign's death after about three years which was the beginning of a long break. I didn't play any rpgs for about a year and then spent several more years trying different systems until I returned to D&D shortly before 3.5 was released.

Anyway, that's of course just my personal experience. There seem to be a lot of people that are happy to play old editions or retro-clones or heavily customized versions of D&D.

 

[Piratecat]

I played 1e a few months back with my high school gaming group, running through Expedition to the Barrier Peaks until I got randomly killed by a no-saving-throw death trap. It was really fun, but I missed some of the tactical richness from later editions. Due to the module, I really missed the lack of any NPCs to roleplay with. And I DEFINITELY didn't miss insta-kill death traps!

Stupid death trap.

I don't think nostalgia plays a huge role in my gaming, other than always trying to catch that sense of "this is so frikkin' cool!" that comes with a new game. I like some of modern RPG advancements too much to give them up on a long-term basis.