Using Intelligence for Initiative

[Camelot]

This is a question I've had since I started playing D&D. Maybe this belongs in a different forum, but this is the game I play so here. Why can the defenses be Str/Con, Dex/Int, and Wis/Cha but Initiative is only Dex? I think it makes sense for a slow but battle-ready warrior to start moving right away because he is mentally prepared for battle (like I said, "battle-ready"). This would also eliminate the problem of Dex being that much better than Int for classes that use neither (like clerics, paladins, maybe more, too tired to look 'em up...).

What do you think about using the better of Dex/Int for Initiative as a houserule?

 

[Nahat Anoj]

This is a question I've had since I started playing D&D. Maybe this belongs in a different forum, but this is the game I play so here. Why can the defenses be Str/Con, Dex/Int, and Wis/Cha but Initiative is only Dex? I think it makes sense for a slow but battle-ready warrior to start moving right away because he is mentally prepared for battle (like I said, "battle-ready"). This would also eliminate the problem of Dex being that much better than Int for classes that use neither (like clerics, paladins, maybe more, too tired to look 'em up...).

What do you think about using the better of Dex/Int for Initiative as a houserule?

This sounds good to me. On a somewhat related note, I allow Con to be used in determining the amount of weight someone can carry for the purposes of encumbrance.

I still would like to give Int at least one unique thing to help separate it from Dex a bit. In the old days, it used to be that Int gave you more skill points and more languages, but that's not so much of an issue now.

 

[eriktheguy]

These abilities are different than defenses. Dex is only for initiative, Str only is for encumberance, Con only is for Hp. Int affects the rituals of arcane and divine casters. Wis affects the rituals of nature casters and those all important perception checks. Cha affects virtually all social skills.
You can house rule if you wan't to, but I think that the current balance is good.

 

[Starfox]

I agree Int could have more uses in 4E, and that its hard to find a good one.

That said, Wis seems more related to initiative than Int does.

 

[Blackbrrd]

The result of this rule is that you get wizards, tactical warlords and swordmages with really high initiative. For most other classes it's a tossup. +1 or maybe +2 bonus...

If I was playing in your game I wouldn't mind, one way or the other.

 

[the Jester]

In 3e I had a feat that let you use your Int bonus instead of your Dex bonus for initiative; I don't think it would break anything to allow it in 4e as well. I don't know, seems like making it cost a feat might be a bit much in 4e though.

 

[S'mon]

Funnily enough, reaction time tests find initial reaction time (time to initiate response) to be very strongly correlated with general intelligence or 'G', so much so you can use them as an IQ test! Whereas they don't correlate with coordination, what we think of as dexterity - though the speed of movement after the response is initiated does fit with Dex. It's actually more realistic to base initiative off Int. The issue is game balance.

 

[Nytmare]

I don't know, seems like making it cost a feat might be a bit much in 4e though.

I had actually been thinking the same thing not long ago and was wondering if there some additional effect that you could add to it to bring it up to a feat-worthy level. Would:

Tactical Genius: Add your Intelligence modifier to your initiative roll in addition to your dexterity.
​

be too much?

 

[Destil]

I had actually been thinking the same thing not long ago and was wondering if there some additional effect that you could add to it to bring it up to a feat-worthy level. Would:

Tactical Genius: Add your Intelligence modifier to your initiative roll in addition to your dexterity.
​

be too much?

It should certainly be a feat bonus, at least.

How about:

Thinking on your Feat: You can use your intelligence bonus instead of your Dexterity bonus for initiative. If surprised you can take a single minor action that isn't an attack during the surprise round.​

Swordmages and Taclords both have useful minors... panther shaman too.

 

[BobTheNob]

This is a question I've had since I started playing D&D. Maybe this belongs in a different forum, but this is the game I play so here. Why can the defenses be Str/Con, Dex/Int, and Wis/Cha but Initiative is only Dex? I think it makes sense for a slow but battle-ready warrior to start moving right away because he is mentally prepared for battle (like I said, "battle-ready"). This would also eliminate the problem of Dex being that much better than Int for classes that use neither (like clerics, paladins, maybe more, too tired to look 'em up...).

What do you think about using the better of Dex/Int for Initiative as a houserule?

Im actually more of the opnion that Int instead of Dex. Initiative is not really a measue of the be reflex's in 4e, its more about tactical advantage, and I suspect using Dex is more of a "hangover" from earlier days than a rational decision.

That said, If I was to say to our party rogue, who LOVES the fact that he gets CA on lower init creatures in first round (which gameplay has proven is profoundly more impactive than it sounds on paper) hew wouldnt be very happy.

So, I think best of Dex/Int is not just passable, its a damn good idea!