I've experienced D&D4

[Turtlejay]

Ah the standard you tried to hate it and didn't give it a fair shot. Really guys 4e is the only game I have ever seen that this convo looks like this

Player: I don't like how 4e reads
4E fan: Man you at lest need to play it before you say you dislike it
Player: played it didn't like it
4E fan: You went in trying to ahte it and didn't give it a shot, you need to play with a good 4e GM
player: Tried it again, didn't like it
4E fan, you need to play it to level 12 at lest give it more time.


It just goes on and on, always an reason why you need to give it more chances to like it. If a man reads a game and says he dislikes it thats fine with me. But if someone plays it and says the same thing , folks should take that as it's not his game style and drop it. But some folks have this thing with you MUST like 4e or you just tried to undermine it.

Wow, thanks for quoting me! For the record, this type of thing happens all the time, in all walks of life. I did not like sushi the first time I tried it. Or the second. I don't even *like* fish. But I tried it again, and found something about it I liked.

The first time I watched a football game, I was lost, and I thought it was stupid. I tried it again, with someone experienced pointing things out. I found that I actually like it!

You make it sound like I'm some whiny fanboi because I suggested he try something again. Did you read the blog?

"Opinion about 4e, pre game"

Then I played it!

"Same opinion about 4e"

Followed by a list of complaints that are mostly related to playstyle and DM familiarity with the game. I respect his opinion on things he doesn't like. I do not know better than bullgrit what bullgrit likes. However, I am just as free to point out that given a better set of circumstances, he may find his opinion is different.

If I had only read the White Wolf rules, and never played in a game, I can guarantee my opinion would be poor. Luckily, I had a DM who knew the system and knew the lore, and we had a great time playing my first game. Reading the rules != Knowing the game.

Jay

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

Was not an attack on you, so don't think I meant it as an attack or ment to say your a whiney fanboy. However you were the first to say something like that so I quoted you

. It's just that 4e tends to bring out the "well try it again" statements . It seems like if 4e is not the game for you then you just need to play more of it. Then if you still don't like it, you played it wrong so try again. I mean with some folks you need to play 4e 3times a week for a year and if ya disliked it you just "didn't give it a real try"


I am one of those people who decided if I want to play a system based off reading it. Most times I have also played and every time it was just as unfun or diliked as I thought it would be.

At some point you know what you like. If you don't like how a game reads and give it a chance by playing it even once, I just find it a bit much for folks to go "Well you never gave it a real try"

If someone hates strawberry and knows they do, and trys a strawberry drink and then says "yep it's nasty" how many folks are gonna be..."well drink more of it you will like it if you give it a shot"

Anyhow not picking on you but the "keep trying it till you like it" mindset

 

[ExploderWizard]

Well, yes, I had the spells in my spellbook - but the only spell worth memorizing was Shocking Grasp (and not much worthwhile at that. Yes, I could deal less damage than the fighter with less chance of hitting! ))

Cheers!

Until you have been stuck with affect normal fires as your offensive spell quit yer bellyaching and count yourself lucky mister.

 

[Remathilis]

Bullgrit, I agree with your assessment, even if we disagree with the details (my problem with the warlord came down to too few useful options and a lot of corner-case powers). However...

Take a character from 1e to 3e. Wow! The changes!

Uh, not really...

Of course, it depends on the class. A 1e Elven Magic-User is gonna feel pretty similar; d4 HD, no armor, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells, etc. He gains cantrips, a few feats, a familiar if he wants it, and crossbow proficiency (oh, and some of his spells are nerfed) but Your elven Magic-User and an Elven Wizard is gonna still be casting sleep, magic-missile and fireball and doing similar things with it (auto-killing a goblin, never-missing force damage, or 1d6/level damage to everyone in a radius). In fact, you could probably convert him ability point for ability point, spell for spell, and hit-die for hit die (augmented for his new con mod).

Your elven mage in 4e? Well, hes got probably an eladrin (and not an elf) for starters. His Magic Missile is at will, but has to roll to hit now. His Fireball doesn't scale, it does the same damage, effect, and radius until he switches it out 10 levels later. Sleep? Well, if you hit AND the creature fails his 50/50 save, you might be able to auto-kill him. Oh, and our mage has 20 hp at first level, his AC is determined by his Intelligence, and his spellbook is only useful for choosing between two spells at a given level, not 18 or more. However, he's not proficient in crossbow anymore.

Of course, your half-elven bard, dwarven fighter/thief or half-orc assassin is gonna be different, but even then they feel closer to 1e's inspiration than 4e.

You don't play D&D above 7th level in 3E, then?

Making 1st level combat feel like 7th level combat isn't my definition of improvement.

Was ADnD 2nd edition D&D for you? i started there and i can feel a step back to 2nd edition in a way. Right now i would be pleased with a mix of 3rd and 4th edition. As i am pleased in a certain degree with both.

I'm interested; as someone who played 2e for most of his early D&D career, I don't see much in common. 2e is refined 1e; 4e is radical departure. 2e oozed fluff, 4e wants you to make your own. The only thing I see in common is they both had kick-ass character generator software (core rules 2.0 vs. DDI).

 

[Fifth Element]

D&D really is bigger than you can experience.

Well said.

Heh, if he was playing by the rules, you would have had four spells to start with - Read Magic, plus one each of offensive, defensive, and miscellaneous.

I recall a 1st-level wizard of mine who rolled for his spells. His offensive spell was push. He died quickly.

I don't think there's anything unique to 4E in the conversations it brings about. Being the most recent edition, the conversations in question are more likely to be about it right now. But it's really the same old, same old. Nerds thinking other nerds are being too nerdy.

 

[Mark]

However, I am just as free to point out that given a better set of circumstances, he may find his opinion is different.

Anything is possible, Jay. I think that any gamer who has played since the early days of D&D would find, upon playing a number of times, that the miniatures gaming aspects of 4E can be a lot of fun. That's what I focus on when our group breaks out the 4E ruleset. Of course, we play dozens of different types of games over the course of a year so it might be different for a group that only plays D&D. If I played with a group that only played D&D and then switched to 4E and was simply going to play 4E moving forward, I would have more compaints.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I recall a 1st-level wizard of mine who rolled for his spells. His offensive spell was push. He died quickly.

You were impatient young apprentice. With time and dedication you could kill Thor with that.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

He said, "It ain't D&D". Now the mystery element is gone so we don't need to visit his blog.

It's the same, boring review we've all seen before, nothing new added or insight. This would have been note worthy a year ago.

It'd be the same as if you posted a 4e positive review from last year and acted like it was news.

 

[Fifth Element]

You were impatient young apprentice. With time and dedication you could kill Thor with that.

I was killed by a bird. There was no time for dedication. I went outside, and a bird killed me. Did I mention I rolled 1 hit point as well?

It was a mercy-killing, really.

 

[Ourph]

Bullgrit, sorry you didn't like your first session much. If your group is planning on finishing out the adventure, do yourself a favor and take the advice upthread about printing out some power cards (assuming you haven't already). It may not change your opinion about the game, but it will probably make the remaining sessions in your 4e trial run a little more enjoyable.