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Adventure: Lord Byron’s Economic Woes (DM: Tenchuu, Judge: H.M.Gimlord)
- Thread starter Tenchuu
- Start date
Tenchuu
First Post
[sblock=rules question]Yep. It's a close blast, so it triggers the vulnerability in my book. My only question is the HOF power itself. And oddly, I only bring this up because in HMG's game Land Ho, we have a barbarian who just used this power so I looked it up on his sheet.
Please take a look at his sheet. In his description of the On Hit effect, he writes, "You then howl in a blast 3 that includes the target. Each enemy in the blast, other than the target, takes 3 thunder damage." I don't have access to the source right now, so I don't know who has the right power description on their character sheet.
If you are right, then you get the 5 vuln. If BigBen is right, then since the target of the HOF isn't targeted by the blast, it would not get the 5 vuln. But, if you managed to get the other rat in the blast, it would get the 5 vuln, I think.
Also, if you're right, let's tell ben to update his sheet. I don't want my character getting gyp'd out of damage. [/sblock]
Please take a look at his sheet. In his description of the On Hit effect, he writes, "You then howl in a blast 3 that includes the target. Each enemy in the blast, other than the target, takes 3 thunder damage." I don't have access to the source right now, so I don't know who has the right power description on their character sheet.
If you are right, then you get the 5 vuln. If BigBen is right, then since the target of the HOF isn't targeted by the blast, it would not get the 5 vuln. But, if you managed to get the other rat in the blast, it would get the 5 vuln, I think.
Also, if you're right, let's tell ben to update his sheet. I don't want my character getting gyp'd out of damage. [/sblock]
ryryguy
First Post
[sblock=ooc]Oops, did we trigger two encounters at once? Geeze
Regarding Howl of Fury, I'm actually of the other opinion, that it does not trigger the vulnerability. Close or area attacks trigger the vulnerability. This power is not a close attack, and in fact the follow-on damage in the blast 3 area isn't really an attack at all, so it's subject to neither the resistance nor the vulnerability. "close blast 3" is just used to describe the area that is subject to the follow-on damage, it doesn't make it a close attack.
It'd be the same for a power like Cleave, though the attack you roll to hit with is a melee attack (and thus triggers the resistance), the extra damage handed out to an adjacent enemy is not an attack (no to-hit roll), and would be applied without any modifications. Similarly Divine Challenge, though I believe you target it as a close burst, if the radiant damage triggers it goes through unmodified, because that part is not an attack. That's the way I play it in my face-to-face game.
It's definitely the case that the primary target of the attack would take half damage since it is a melee attack power, I don't think there's any doubt about that.
Of course it's to our advantage if Kane can use it to hit the vulnerability, so I'm not going to argue too hard about it.
I will post a move later tonight. Have to decide whether to use Resist Energy now or try to save it when others are adjacent.[/sblock]
Regarding Howl of Fury, I'm actually of the other opinion, that it does not trigger the vulnerability. Close or area attacks trigger the vulnerability. This power is not a close attack, and in fact the follow-on damage in the blast 3 area isn't really an attack at all, so it's subject to neither the resistance nor the vulnerability. "close blast 3" is just used to describe the area that is subject to the follow-on damage, it doesn't make it a close attack.
It'd be the same for a power like Cleave, though the attack you roll to hit with is a melee attack (and thus triggers the resistance), the extra damage handed out to an adjacent enemy is not an attack (no to-hit roll), and would be applied without any modifications. Similarly Divine Challenge, though I believe you target it as a close burst, if the radiant damage triggers it goes through unmodified, because that part is not an attack. That's the way I play it in my face-to-face game.
It's definitely the case that the primary target of the attack would take half damage since it is a melee attack power, I don't think there's any doubt about that.
Of course it's to our advantage if Kane can use it to hit the vulnerability, so I'm not going to argue too hard about it.
I will post a move later tonight. Have to decide whether to use Resist Energy now or try to save it when others are adjacent.[/sblock]
H.M.Gimlord
Explorer
[sblock=HOF]Allow me to play Devil's Advocate here against Ryry's argument. Cleave is not exactly subject to the same wording as HOF. HOF specifically states "You then howl in a blast 3..." while cleave states, " an enemy adjacent to you other than the target..." There is no mention of an area attack in Cleave, while HOF specifically says "Blast 3". Though the initial attack is not an area attack, the follow-up to HOF is (or at least it can be interpreted as such). I'll allow Tencuu's ruling.
Unfortunately, Ryry is indisputably right in that you can't target one creature with the initial attack AND the blast.[/sblock]
Unfortunately, Ryry is indisputably right in that you can't target one creature with the initial attack AND the blast.[/sblock]
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ryryguy
First Post
[sblock=ooc]Just to clarify the point about Cleave... of course there's no suggestion that the extra damage from Cleave is a blast, that was not my point. The similarity is that the extra damage should not be treated as an attack, in both cases. Would you apply the resistance to melee attacks to Cleave's extra damage? I would not. Maybe Divine Challenge is a better example... that's an actual close burst power. Does it trigger the vulnerability? (Not a purely academic question as we do have a paladin in the group.)
All that said, Howl of Fury is not the best written power by any means. I don't think you'll find another power that says "<do X> in a blast 3" unless it's like, "Make a secondary attack that is a blast 3", which would be clear. So I don't think it's at all outrageous to treat the extra damage as a blast for this purpose. Many of the Primal Power powers are poorly written, it seems. (See Fire Hawk.)[/sblock]
All that said, Howl of Fury is not the best written power by any means. I don't think you'll find another power that says "<do X> in a blast 3" unless it's like, "Make a secondary attack that is a blast 3", which would be clear. So I don't think it's at all outrageous to treat the extra damage as a blast for this purpose. Many of the Primal Power powers are poorly written, it seems. (See Fire Hawk.)[/sblock]
H.M.Gimlord
Explorer
[sblock=OOC]I agree that many of the PP powers are not well written. I guess I'm just erring on the sympathetic side. Tenchuu, of all people, should know how much of a pain rats can be .[/sblock]
.[/sblock]
evilbob
Explorer
[sblock=rats' aura]Yeah, I'm pretty sure my spell doesn't interfere with the rats' aura. It will let someone move away without an OA, tho - I'm sure of that.[/sblock]
[sblock=suggestion for Hergunna]Wild shape > savage rend to slide it NE 1 > move to E9 or I10/I11. I'm really not kidding when I say I'm pretty sure I can hold back the swarms without much trouble; my suggestion to the group is that the melee characters maybe take a swipe at them and then move to the big room to deal with the more dangerous threat. Hergunna moving to E9 would put you in a more defensive position regardless of their choice, but I don't think they could both move out to the big room. Moving to I10 or 11 would put you out of reach of another slam (assuming you slide it to C14) and allow you to shoot from afar. With your slide abilities you shouldn't have too much trouble getting past it and back into the fray if it comes toward you.
Just a thought. Not sure how much meta we should do?[/sblock]
[sblock=suggestion for Hergunna]Wild shape > savage rend to slide it NE 1 > move to E9 or I10/I11. I'm really not kidding when I say I'm pretty sure I can hold back the swarms without much trouble; my suggestion to the group is that the melee characters maybe take a swipe at them and then move to the big room to deal with the more dangerous threat. Hergunna moving to E9 would put you in a more defensive position regardless of their choice, but I don't think they could both move out to the big room. Moving to I10 or 11 would put you out of reach of another slam (assuming you slide it to C14) and allow you to shoot from afar. With your slide abilities you shouldn't have too much trouble getting past it and back into the fray if it comes toward you.
Just a thought.
Not sure how much meta we should do?[/sblock]
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johnmeier1
Explorer
Stanng, Kane, get back there and help Hergunna Wil shouts. He strums the lone string of his new bow while speaking. Arcane thunder ripples in his voice and slams into the nearby rats sweeping his allies along. Kane and Stanng are moves past him into the hallway.
[sblock=OOC] Well I might as well go and get things moving along.
Minor: Hunter's Quarry on Rats in C6
Standard: Shout of Triumph in E6 towards Stanng/rats: 1d20+7=21 (vs rat in C6 Fort) for 1d6+6=8 thunder damage (it is a close blast) +1d6=6 for Quarry. Push rats to -A6 and slide Stanng to E9
Move: Walk to G10
Oh, 19 damage should have that rat swarm bloodied
Hmmm, now I am the one next to the rats next turn Help, Mervin!
[/sblock]
[sblock=ministats]
Init: +2 Speed: 5 Perception:14 Insight: 16
AC: 17 NAD:14/13/17
HP: 33/33 Surges: 10/10 Surge Value: 8 AP: 1
Languages: Allarian, Imperia, Draconic
Str:8 Dex:13 Wis:11 Con:16 Int:10 Cha:20
Powers:
Jinx Shot
Cutting Words
Second Wind
Shout of Triumph (used)
Twin Strike
Hunter's Quarry (used)
Majestic Word
Words of Friendship
Moment of Escape (used)
Arrow of Warning (use if bloodied ally attacked)
Full Character Sheet
[/sblock]
[sblock=OOC] Well I might as well go and get things moving along.
Minor: Hunter's Quarry on Rats in C6
Standard: Shout of Triumph in E6 towards Stanng/rats: 1d20+7=21 (vs rat in C6 Fort) for 1d6+6=8 thunder damage (it is a close blast) +1d6=6 for Quarry. Push rats to -A6 and slide Stanng to E9
Move: Walk to G10
Oh, 19 damage should have that rat swarm bloodied
Hmmm, now I am the one next to the rats next turn
Help, Mervin![/sblock]
[sblock=ministats]
Init: +2 Speed: 5 Perception:14 Insight: 16
AC: 17 NAD:14/13/17
HP: 33/33 Surges: 10/10 Surge Value: 8 AP: 1
Languages: Allarian, Imperia, Draconic
Str:8 Dex:13 Wis:11 Con:16 Int:10 Cha:20
Powers:
Jinx Shot
Cutting Words
Second Wind
Shout of Triumph (used)
Twin Strike
Hunter's Quarry (used)
Majestic Word
Words of Friendship
Moment of Escape (used)
Arrow of Warning (use if bloodied ally attacked)
Full Character Sheet
[/sblock]
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